Chris Perkins is the President of Model B, an independent growth marketing agency that leverages a unique blend of internal and external talent to deliver innovative solutions for clients. Under Chris’ leadership, Model B has built a network of over 60 vetted agency partners worldwide and achieved significant momentum, helping brands achieve superior marketing results through a flexible, collaborative model. Chris brings decades of experience from top agencies like Ogilvy, Hal Riney, and Publicis, and was the first CMO of Brand USA, where he led a $200 million global tourism campaign delivering a 20:1 ROI.
Here’s a Glimpse of What You’ll Hear:
- [05:34] Chris Perkins gives an insider look into the high-pressure culture of top agencies
- [09:21] Billion-dollar startup failures and their lasting marketing lessons
- [11:41] How small, focused teams outperformed massive global agency structures
- [14:15] The remote work boom with 3.4 million new freelancers
- [16:38] Why traditional office work may be “the death of humanity”
- [22:41] The challenges of marketing a nation with political oversight
- [29:46] Model B’s unique blend of in-house and external talent
In this episode…
The traditional agency model is crumbling under the weight of modern work. With teams scattered across time zones and top talent opting for freelance freedom, agencies are being forced to rethink what it means to deliver value. How do you build world-class campaigns when your best people might never meet in person?
According to Chris Perkins, the answer lies in embracing flexibility instead of fighting it. Drawing from decades of experience at global agencies like Ogilvy, Hal Riney, and Publicis, Chris believes the future of marketing depends on blending small, highly focused internal teams with curated networks of external experts. His Partner Collective approach allows agencies to scale up or down instantly while maintaining top-tier quality — something that traditional hierarchies struggle to achieve. By pairing management consulting principles with this cloud-based collaboration model, Chris argues that agencies can finally align talent, technology, and client needs in a way that works for the modern era.
Tune in to this episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast as John Corcoran interviews Chris Perkins, President of Model B, to discuss how agencies can evolve for a world of remote work and on-demand talent. They talk about what Chris learned from the heyday of big ad firms, how Model B’s Partner Collective bridges global expertise, and why smaller, focused teams often outperform large ones. Chris also shares insights on designing agency systems that thrive in the post-office world.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- John Corcoran on LinkedIn
- Rise25
- Rise25 Email: support@rise25.com
- Rise25 Podcast Co-Pilot
- Chris Perkins on LinkedIn
- Model B
Special Mention(s):
Quotable Moments:
- “Everybody had to give 100% all the time, so that there was no downtime.”
- “Fundamentally, the drivers of that are a small team, like the strategic imperatives are coming from a small team.”
- “There are so many wonderful agencies out there that have capacity, they love it when we call.”
- “The worst thing we could do is try to go back to what used to be a nine-to-five in an office and a desk in a cube farm or whatever.”
- “Our hypothesis is there’s individual contractors and agencies that can be very precise talent that we can tap with very low friction.”
Action Steps:
- Build smaller, high-performing teams: Focusing on compact, cross-functional groups drives agility, accountability, and sharper strategic execution.
- Leverage on-demand expert networks: Partnering with vetted external specialists allows organizations to scale quickly and maintain top-tier expertise without heavy overhead.
- Rethink the role of the office: Redesign physical collaboration around purpose — team building, strategy, and creativity — rather than outdated nine-to-five routines.
- Adopt a consulting mindset with clients: Understanding how clients make money before proposing solutions ensures marketing efforts directly impact measurable business outcomes.
- Embrace technology to reduce friction: Using cloud platforms and collaboration tools connects global talent seamlessly, improving efficiency and unlocking new possibilities for growth.
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Episode Transcript
Intro: 00:00
All right. Today we’re talking about the evolution of work and remote talent and how that’s affecting in particular the agency model. Got lots of agency owners who listen to this podcast. My guest today is Chris Perkins. He heads up an agency that has a different model from what you might traditionally think of.
I’ll tell you more about him in a second, so stay tuned.
John Corcoran: 00:21
Welcome to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast, where we feature top entrepreneurs, business leaders, and thought leaders and ask them how they built key relationships to get where they are today. Now let’s get started with the show.
John Corcoran: 00:37
All right. Welcome, everyone. John Corcoran here. I’m the host of the show. You.
Every week we have smart CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs from all kinds of companies. We’ve had Gusto Kinkos, Ypo, AEO, Activision Blizzard, LendingTree, lots of great episodes and lots of people in the agency space as well. And so you can check out those episodes we’ve had, you know, Jason Swenk, Carl Smith, David C Baker, Roger Hurney, lots of great episodes. If you check out the archives before we get into this episode. This episode is brought to you by Rise25, our company where we help businesses to give to and connect to their dream relationships and partnerships.
We do that by helping companies to run their podcasts. We are the easy button for a company to launch and run their podcast. We do three things: strategy, accountability, and full execution, especially using our platform which is called podcast Co-Pilot. So to learn more about Podcast Co-Pilot and Rise25, go to rise25.com. Or you can email our team at support@rise25.com.
All right. And before I get into today’s guest, I want to thank Ashtan Moore, friend of the podcast, friend of Rise25, who has introduced us to today’s guest, which I’m really excited about. He’s the President at Model B, which is an independent growth marketing agency based out of the DMV Washington, DC area, which I was just researching about how that term came about. It’s kind of interesting because I was born in Washington, DC. We never called it the DMV back in the day, but that’s the term now.
It was founded in 2016. The agency has had a lot of momentum through Perkins, who has a ton of experience in the agency space, including here in the San Francisco Bay area where I am based. And Chris, great. It’s such a pleasure to have you here today, and I’d love to always start by getting to know what people were like as a kid. And we’ve had people that mowed lawns, we’ve had people that have sold gum at school, got busted by their teacher.
We got people that scolded, sold weed at school, got busted by the principal. We’ve had people that are doing lemonade stands, stuff like that. You built and flipped a boat. That’s pretty cool. You’re 13 years old growing up in Michigan, as one does in Michigan.
You buy a boat, play with it for a little bit, fix it up and sell it. That’s pretty cool. Tell us that story.
Chris Perkins: 02:44
Thanks, John. Yeah, I’ll actually tie two things together. I mowed lawns to be able to buy the boat and.
John Corcoran: 02:51
Plowed the profits into the boat. Nice.
Chris Perkins: 02:52
Well, even better, it was a cashless deal. I said to the folks that had a boat, the first thing they did was they invited me to babysit their kids one day, and I said while I was there. Hey, was the dad, you know, who mows your lawn? He said, you know, I don’t really have anybody. I said, who owns that boat that’s sitting out there that’s a mess?
And he said, well, that’s a boat. We just need to get it cleaned up and all that. I said, well, I’ll mow the lawn for the rest of the summer in exchange for the boat. And the deal was done. And so lots of lots of learning.
At 13, I thought it would just be, you know, a little wax and off I’d go. And little did I know that there’s these things called motors that actually require a fair amount of care and feeding.
John Corcoran: 03:39
And how big was this boat?
Chris Perkins: 03:41
It was a little StarCraft 15.5 footer, you know, which was very much the trend back in the, you know, the 70s. And it had a 70 horse Johnson outboard on it. And, and that was one of the worst engines made by Johnson during that period. It was a three cylinder and the reed valves in it. I came to learn at 13 or something that was very finicky.
So $375. After I dropped it off at the Marina, it came back repaired and I had many other lawns to mow to, to cover that.
John Corcoran: 04:18
Yeah.
Chris Perkins: 04:19
And then I also learned that these things take gas and oil and oh my.
John Corcoran: 04:23
Gosh, more than you expected.
Chris Perkins: 04:25
Oh yeah. But but you know, after having it for the summer and getting it on the water, I, you know, got to ski a little bit and then sold it for a nice little profit and parlayed that into what I would do next and did buy a few other boats and flip them one one sailboat. So was a great way to learn and, you know, and kind of be entrepreneurial as a young kid and, and not flip burgers. Nothing against it. But that wasn’t my vibe.
I wanted to be outside and that gave me a great way to do it.
John Corcoran: 04:52
That’s really cool.
John Corcoran: 04:53
That’s really cool. Well, let’s talk about your professional career because you started when you actually lived here in the Bay area. And, you know, you worked for some of the iconic companies. Ogilvy Hal Riney, publicist. These are some big agencies.
Back in the day, when I first moved to the Bay area, which was 20 years ago, agencies were huge here in San Francisco. Lots of people worked for these agencies. Now they’re a tiny little portion of what they once were, and everyone works in tech. So that industry has changed a lot. But what was it like working at these big, iconic companies like Ogilvy and Hal Riney back in the day?
Chris Perkins: 05:34
It was, I mean, literally so invigorating. I mean, I remember my first week at Hal Riney and Partners, which was before the Publicis deal, because Publicis acquired them. I literally was hired as an account supervisor. I was working at First Union Bank, which is a Charlotte based bank, back in the day and now is, you know, after the Russian Doll act of banks is, you know, part of Wells Fargo. But I worked on that business and across from my office at this British planner, strategic planner.
Brilliant guy. And he would go like he, you know, worked like crazy on mostly new business. And what I found really interesting is that he would work so hard that he almost burned himself out, and then he’d be ineffective and basically do nothing for like a week or two. And like my third week in the job, the president of the agency came in and said to him, buddy, today’s your last day. Appreciate everything you’ve done, wish you luck, and handed him an envelope with his check and asked him to pack up and head out.
And this planner. His name was Andy. This planner was gobsmacked. I mean, he was like, how on earth can that be? Like, what’s happening here?
And it turned out that what I learned from that experience was that everybody had to give 100% all the time, that there was no downtime. And it wasn’t that it was a sweatshop, but it was because the industry is so kind. You’re so dependent on your partners that the work ethic was very, very clear and clear to the point where you could be a superstar. But if you weren’t on and contributing and delivering to your partners all the time, you were out. Wow.
So it was just absolutely like an eye opener, and it changed the way I look at the way I would work. And it gave me a lot more, a lot more pride in a way of being in such a really interesting place, doing such amazing work.
John Corcoran: 07:40
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 07:41
And some of the client work was really interesting in spite of that. Kind of like you, you either produce at all times or not have an attitude there. But some of the client work was really interesting. Some of them talk a little bit about the clients that you came across.
Chris Perkins: 07:56
Well, yeah, I mean, the client that’s best known, I mean, Hal himself and the team built the Saturn brand that’s what the agency was known for.
John Corcoran: 08:06
I had a Saturn.
Chris Perkins: 08:07
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 08:08
And they’re fading into oblivion now. It’s been like 15 years or something since they completely disappeared. Yeah, but it was a very different car company. In fact, that was kind of their slogan.
Chris Perkins: 08:17
That was very much it. Right? It wasn’t. They weren’t overpromising. They weren’t saying they were the best thing in the world.
They were just a solid, you know, affordable American made car. And that was the bottom line. And that pragmatism, that kind of authenticity, allowed people to be proud of being an American, you know, auto driver and to have a utilitarian vehicle, because that’s very much what it was. Yeah. But I mean, the team also did.
Bartles and James, which was a big thing back in the day, you know, Black Star beer, you know, Hal How was, you know, did a lot of voiceover work himself? I happened to work at First Union Bank. But we also did a bunch of.com stuff because that was, you know, the time when money was like, you know, oxygen and it was just flowing everywhere. I mean, we did web van the, the first.
John Corcoran: 09:12
Web van precursor. So web van was kind of like, you know, it’s basically delivery of groceries back in the day, but way, but way too soon.
Chris Perkins: 09:21
Way too soon. Yeah. And, they were so infrastructure focused they forgot actually how to make money. And I mean, they burned through $1 billion in cash only to go away. And a lot of that stuff is still out there, the kind of learning is out there.
But what can I mean, the money that flowed into those, those deals, I mean, and the phone would ring. I mean, back in that time the phone would ring and it’d be some company saying, we’ve got, you know, $20 million, we’re a new brand. Can you help us, you know, with a Super Bowl spot or, you know, whatever. And it was just insane. I mean, literally insane.
And I mean, I actually worked on the competitor to TiVo, a company called replay TV.
John Corcoran: 10:02
Oh, yeah.
Chris Perkins: 10:03
Which was a DVR, you know, before that became commonplace and available everywhere.
John Corcoran: 10:09
Pre-streaming this was I mean, this was revolutionary because before it was just VHS tapes. That’s right. And then all of a sudden you could record whatever you wanted digitally, watch it back, you could watch, you could pause live TV. That was really revolutionary, too.