Russ Rosenzweig | Inventing the $150 Million Expert Witness Search and Referral Industry and Paving the Way for the Gig Economy

Russ Rosenzweig is the Founder and CEO of Round Table Group, a company he founded as a senior at Northwestern University. Round Table Group is an expert witness search and referral company that helps connect lawyers with expert witnesses in all fields. Russ grew and sold the business to a publicly-traded company but bought it back a couple of years later.

Russ is also a speaker and seasoned mediator who is very good at resolving sticky business disputes. He is an MBA graduate of The University of Chicago Booth School of Business and he holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Northwestern University.

In this episode, Russ Rosenzweig talks about creating his expert witness services company as a senior in University, his strategies for managing through a recession, and how he helps in resolving disputes.

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Here’s a Glimpse of What You’ll Learn:

  • How Russ Rosenzweig came up with the idea of creating an expert witness company
  • What inspired Russ and his colleagues to go full-time with the company and how they recruited professors
  • How the firm got their first client litigators looking for expert witnesses
  • How Russ and his team grew their company and utilized emails to introduce their firm to lawyers in the 90’s
  • Russ’ approach to managing the business in the current coronavirus recession compared to previous recessions
  • Russ’ advice to businesses that are not virtual on being innovative and in dealing with competition
  • Russ talks about his decision to sell and then buy back his own company
  • Russ’ approach and philosophy on being a mediator and resolving disputes
  • The people Russ acknowledges for his achievements

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing.

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally.

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Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  00:40

All right. Welcome everyone. JOHN Corcoran here. I’m the host of the smart business revolution podcast where I talk with CEOs founders and entrepreneurs of companies and organizations like YPO, eo Activision Blizzard, lending tree, Open Table, x software, and many more. I’m also the co-founder of rise25, where we connect b2b business owners to their ideal prospects and I’m excited today because My guest is Ross Rosenzweig. He’s the founder of round Tabor table group, which he founded while serving as a senior and at Northwestern University. And it’s not often you get to talk to someone who invents an industry that generates hundreds of millions of dollars, but that’s effectively what he did expert witness search and referral, which is a new industry that he basically invented with that company, grew it up, scaled it up, sold it to a publicly-traded company, bought the company back a couple of years ago, and he’s back again serving as CEO. And he’s also a really seasoned hand. And expert mediator is really good at resolving sticky business disputes. No doubt has something to do with the work that he’s been doing over the years. So we’re going to ask him about that as well. But first, before we get into that this episode is brought to you by my company rise 25 Media and our mission through 75 is really to help you to connect in deepen relationships with your best referral partners, customers, strategic partners, the people that fulfill you that light you up that excite you.

We do that through our done for you podcasts and content marketing solution, I firmly believe it’s one of the best things I’ve done. start a podcast and I’m in an evangelist, I know that we can only touch so many people that I tell everyone I talked to that you should do it. So if you want to learn more about that go to rise 25 and now I get to benefit because I get to talk to a very smart guy, Mr. Ross Rosen. So I before we do that, though, I do want to mention that our mutual friend and a client of ours, Alexi cash and CEO of Ellen Penny imports introduced us and she’s also the founder of Lexie cash and podcast so I do want to give her a shout out. Go check out if you’re interested in wine especially go check out the Aleksey cash and podcast. But Russ Tell me a little bit about you were senior in college and your start this business then no being really successful in basically inventing an industry. You weren’t a lawyer, you weren’t a practicing lawyer, and you weren’t a practicing expert, as far as I know. But you saw an opening, you saw that there was a need to help people to connect with experts and expert witnesses. And where did that come about? How did you come up with the idea?


Russ Rosenzweig  03:24

Hey, john, it’s an honor to be here. It’s a fun little story because my senior year in college was a recession here. It was 9293. It was the famous George Bush Senior. It’s the economy stupid year. And the kind of funny part is roundtable group was really, the idea was supposed to be a plan B just in case my partners and I couldn’t get a real job. And, you know, I had this dream of becoming management consulting At a prestigious firm, and it was just very difficult during that recession year to get such a job. I did miraculously in the 11th hour get hired by Price Waterhouse and had a couple of excellent years in the management consulting world.


John Corcoran  04:18

And you were doing roundtable groups secretly on the side during this time.


Russ Rosenzweig  04:23

It was a little kind of secret side venture because I always was puzzled, like, I just couldn’t believe john that, you know, Price Waterhouse was billing me out at like, $400 an hour. Well, you know, I was 22 and knew nothing. And you know, I was making a nice salary like $33,000 a year, which was more than I thought I’d ever make in my whole life. But you know, that margin, right, just couldn’t stop thinking about the margin. And, you know, I had this idea what if we could create our own consulting firm, you know, not with people like me, because I’m no expert. But my professors, my professors at Northwestern, my professors at the University of Chicago, where I went to business school A year later, like these, I thought were truly brilliant experts. And wouldn’t it be fun to just like, create a virtual consulting firm that consisted entirely of professors? That was really the spark of the roundtable group idea during my senior year.


John Corcoran  05:33

Got it, got it. And so at the same time, the economy’s not doing well. And you do get this job but you’re working on this project on the side. what point do you decide that you’re going to go full time and what inspired that?


Russ Rosenzweig  05:50

We took about three years before we went full time and during the three years, you know, I was busy with a day job. Have Pricewaterhouse You know, this was like an evening and weekend passion in which my colleagues and I were single-mindedly focused on recruiting professors. That’s really all I did when I wasn’t working at Price Waterhouse. And it involved emails, John, because email was not yet mainstream. But academics were the first to be on it now. And we were able to through you know, just a lot of hard work and sleuthing and research. We basically got the names and emails of, well, pretty much every professor in the country and we send them emails, just like telling them that they’re a rock star in the field and rock stars should have business managers and we would like to be their business manager to try to find them interesting and lucrative gigs as a complement to their teaching and research and most of them said yes By the end of this year,


John Corcoran  07:01

there really wasn’t a lot of competition in the inbox back then. And not many people reaching out to these professors saying, but what kinds of responses Did you get from people when you said this?


Russ Rosenzweig  07:12

Wow, that’s so true. JOHN, if people can remember 25 years ago, you actually like looked forward to getting an email. No such thing as spam. And yeah, no faculty members found it to be a novel and interesting invitation. And, you know, there’s no downside. And professors don’t typically make millions of dollars a year. So having like a manager that can find them interesting and lucrative side gigs, but it’s appealing to them. And when we got like 10,000 professors saying, Yes, that’s when we said, Okay, time to quit the day job and to do this full time.


John Corcoran  07:50

Of course, there are two sides of the coin. You got to get the supply, but there’s also the demand side right. So then did you go out to litigators and law firms, and Say Who do you need? Do you need an expert in this data? The other thing? I’ve got them for you How did that side work?


Russ Rosenzweig  08:05

Not really, John, our success is truly accidental. We kind of forgot to write a business plan and a marketing plan. And right after we quit, we kind of realized, whoops, we only have the supply side and no demand. And it took actually another two to three years. And we almost had to close it down and go out of business. Guess we were running out of money fast. But it was like miraculous that litigators started calling us because we got an interest. We were in the New York Times we were in the Wall Street Journal. We were in the Chicago Tribune. It was, you know, an unusual company, consulting firm of professors. And when lawyers kind of heard about it, our phones started ringing with requests for expert witnesses. And that was our light bulb. Aha moment, we should be in the expert witness business.


John Corcoran  09:05

Got it? Got it. And, you know, I practice law for many years. And I remember in the law firms I worked in at the time, maybe even to this day there were these volumes that experts would pay to be in. And, you know, lawyers and paralegals would look through looking for an expert in these different publications that the law firm had to pay for. And that was kind of like the what is that the model that you eventually ended up disrupting?


Russ Rosenzweig  09:36

There wasn’t really a true precedent for what we became ended up doing. Basically, top litigators constantly need expert witnesses. And you know, you can lose a trial john, if you get the wrong expert if you make a mistake, and most great political gaiters are very brilliant and thorough and rigorous people. But what I found is that wasn’t always the case when it came to finding expert witnesses, it’s just very time-consuming. It’s very inefficient for a lawyer to spend her time doing that. So normally, they would just be asked around at the firm, like, who do we know, who’d we use last time? You know, there wasn’t even Google yet. But when Google came about that became even more time consuming, because you’d get 3 million pages when you type in a search term. And so, you know, like this expert selection piece is just so critically important to the outcome of the case. So we really just decided to do it the old fashioned way, you know, just hard work. When a lawyer needed an expert, they call us, most of my colleagues over time. You know, we’re lawyers are lawyers and we became skilled at reading complaints, reading patents, just having a good old 30 or 40. 45-minute conversation with a lawyer brainstorming what’s the ideal credentials of the perfect expert really understanding the nuances of the expert needs. And then we, you know, over a quarter-century developed the databases and the research capabilities to be able to find, and even vet and help a lawyer assess ideal expert candidates, and that became the service we provided.


John Corcoran  11:28

Right, right now, I know when I was a senior in college 22 years old, and if you put me on the phone with a litigator who’s got a big case, they’re going to trial, I probably would have just completely melted under the pressure. And I know you went and got your MBA, so that probably helped give you a little bit of confidence. But how and you and by the way, while you’re getting your MBA at university, Chicago, you’re building the business up to 01 million, 2 million a year. How did you start selling to this model? market of litigators when by this point, you’re probably 2425 years old, you’ve got an MBA. So you got a graduate degree, but how do you start selling to community that you’re not a part of?


Russ Rosenzweig  12:12

Yeah. So that’s also a surprising little story when I told you, John, about how we recruited all those professors. So now fast forward five years, we had this lightbulb aha moment like lawyers. We are now officially in the expert witness business. And now it’s like 1997 98, email was starting to become more mainstream. The web had been invented. And with a lot of hard work, we were able to just kind of repeat that process we did with the professors, we were able to find the names of thousands of lawyers litigators, particularly at specifically targeted firms. We were able to figure out their email addresses, phone numbers. And, you know, by this time, we had done a few successful engagements with, you know, 20 or 30 of the top law firms. So we were able to start introducing ourselves, you know, with some scale to many other lawyers at each firm hey, we’ve had the pleasure of working with some of your partners and Associates on expert witness research and you know, it would just be a pleasure to work with you to do you have any matters in which you need experts and it just you know, that marketing sort of business development channel was back then very, very successful and fast. It was just really easy to reply to an email and you know, articulate details about a new case and get on the phone and discuss the matter in depth. And, you know, I started hiring lawyers who just didn’t want to practice law anymore but wanted it love the idea of becoming professional No expert witness researchers and finders and it just became very fun and enjoyable work like it was. each assignment was interesting and significant and fun and challenging. And we were good at it. We actually, you know, succeeded most of the time at locating and bedding and recommending experts. Hmm.


John Corcoran  14:23

Now, you’re, you’re growing it, you’re scaling it up. This is in the late 90s and 2000. I wanted to ask you about, you survived a few recessions and you founded it going into obviously the first recession. This is talking about the mid 90s 9394 when the economy was just very sluggish, Bill Clinton gets elected. George Bush doesn’t get reelected. And so it’s around that time period. Now we’re recording this in late April 2020 Coronavirus pandemic is unfolding everyone still sheltered in place. In case you’re listening To this in the future, but I wanted to ask you, what is the market like now? And what’s your approach to managing the business? Because we haven’t gotten to there yet. But you did step away from the business for a while you sold it, and then you came back. But now managing the business, what is it like going into this recession compared to the other recessions you’ve been through previously?


Russ Rosenzweig  15:23

Well, we’ve been through a lot of crises over 25 years, and weather them are pretty well, usually, litigation is one of the few areas that does well in most recessions. But we’ve seen nothing ever obviously, like COVID-19. These are just strange, surreal times. And, you know, we have just this real compassion for the state of the world right now. And there’s a lot of people in need. And, you know, first and foremost We’re really focusing our energies on trying to help, you know, we’re in a very relatively fortunate position. And we’re able to secure things like masks from our university connections around the world and send them to clients and send them to health care workers. on the business side, we feel just kind of strangely fortunate, because, you know, we’ve been virtual for 25 years, john, our whole model since 1993. Were skilled people working all of them from home? And, you know, we’re kind of like, most of us are lawyers and introverts and don’t leave the house much anyway, so strangely, you know, the quarantine does not really affect our business that much. The second thing I’ve noticed is, you know, most of our clients are at the sort of upper echelons of top tier or law firms and boutique firms working on very significant litigations. And you know, a lot of them, kind of half jokingly, as far as I can tell john, their response to the crisis is, you know, working even more enthusiastically from home. And, and, you know, the phone hasn’t really stopped ringing. Uh, you know, there’s been a little bit of a slowdown, call it 10% less than usual, which is to be expected better than expected. But the third observation is just like, unfortunately, in a way, good for us, but maybe unfortunately for the world. litigation seems to be on people’s minds in the COVID context, and you know, when the world returns to normal, were frankly, expecting fortunately or unfortunately to be busier than ever.


John Corcoran  17:56

Hmm. And you’ve been around the block a lot when It comes to managing running a business, being in business being an entrepreneur for many years. What advice do you have for businesses out there right now that are, you know, weren’t fortunate like you to be virtual for as many years as you have. And by the way, I feel the same way. I feel so incredibly fortunate because our businesses the same way our whole team’s virtual, we found that the phone hasn’t stopped ringing, in part because of what we do. And in part because we can continue to do it. So I feel so fortunate as well and grateful, but what are your your thoughts on that for businesses that do need to innovate and maybe even completely pivot the business right now?


Russ Rosenzweig  18:41

Well, you know, this is our 25th anniversary this year, and revelations. Thanks, man. We’ve been like, pre-COVID-19 like thinking strategically about what I like to call a quarter-century plan. You know, a lot of companies thinking monthly think in terms of quarterly earnings or, you know, annual plans, and we’re actually working on a 25-year plan. And, you know, have been enthusiastically focused on, you know, what do we want to be, like, on our 50th anniversary, and we’re just thinking just in terms of, you know, far out innovations, you know, integrating artificial intelligence into our research processes, you know, just thinking about how to innovate the whole expert witness industry, which has grown a lot. I mean, you know, what we did kind of how do I say sparked a lot of competitive entry, and our little brand new industry is now like, probably nearly 200 million in terms of quite a few sort of expert witness providers. And


John Corcoran  19:55

now like, you know, I mean, they say flattered. You know, what does it imitations is sincerest form of flattery but really want competitors. You want no competitors. But what does that been like when you add a lot of other meat to copycat firms that are coming along?


Russ Rosenzweig  20:12

There have been pros and cons to it. The main pro to competitive entry for us was that lawyers just before we came along, just like the way they found experts were on their own. You know, who do we know who would we use last time? maybe ask an associate or a paralegal to help like there was no notion of a like third party to outsource the expert witness search. So the first thing that happened when we got competitive entry is like what’s the phrase all oceans all ships rose? Because the


John Corcoran  20:52

tide Yeah, we named our business after that rising tide lifts all boats,


Russ Rosenzweig  20:57

rising tide lifts all boats and And with competitive entry, like lawyers began to realize, wow, I should outsource this to somebody I had no idea was like at an industry, I just thought it was like this guy Rossum is roundtable out there. So competitive entry initially was very helpful. More recently, I have mixed emotions about it. A few of the latest entries into the industry are private equity back and have extremely expensive infrastructure with flashy offices on Times Square, etc. And they’re in the habit of just like making experts very expensive. You know, experts themselves aren’t the cheapest purchase in the world, especially world-class talent. And then but if you add, like 234 or $500 an hour to what an expert was, which some of our competitors are doing, it’s just you know, not palatable. clients don’t appreciate it. And when they think that it’s too expensive, they kind of imagine that the whole industry operates like that. And so, you know, there’s always a double-edged sword with competitive entry.


John Corcoran  22:13

Yeah. And you find a you hear about this sometimes, before a private equity firm goes into a market like that or starts a new business that they start putting out feelers, either they approach you about an acquisition or stealthily, they come in trying to scope you out. Have you experienced that at all over the years?


Russ Rosenzweig  22:33

Yeah, I kind of I’m embarrassed to be considered something of like a grandfatherly figure now in the industry.


John Corcoran  22:43

That’s a weird position because then like, you know, someone’s approaching you it could be flattery, but it could also be they’re trying to get competitive intelligence. So how do you know that Right, right.



Quite right. They all called me


Russ Rosenzweig  22:55

advice and guidance, but that was before I bought roundtable group back then So I was, you know, arguably in a pretty good unbiased position. Yeah, understanding the charge them for your growth and probably, unfortunately, I gave them too much good advice, especially now that I’m back in the game.


John Corcoran  23:16

Right. Let’s talk about that. So you ended up selling the business around 2010? How did that come about? Why’d you make the decision to sell?


Russ Rosenzweig  23:26

Yeah, so speaking of recessions, this all went down in Oh, 809. So it takes a little while to consummate the transaction. So with that recession, that some call it the great recession in oh eight again, you know, litigation isn’t as affected as many industries are. It actually was though, at that time, but you know, not as bad as many others had it and we had decided that you know, what, with all these competitors, flattering competitors In the industry now, our mantra for that last recession was basically acquired or be acquired. And I spent most of my time you know, in oh eight and oh nine, doing due diligence on the few competitors that had entered the industry and were actually pretty close to what would we call it a roll-up of the expert witness industry. And then, you know, before I can kind of execute on that, Thomson Reuters, my beloved favorite company in the world, called us and asked if we want it to be acquired, and they kind of mentioned a number and then I sort of accidentally said, Okay, so



I guess you’re



okay with the number.


Russ Rosenzweig  24:55

So how high and buyback low john. That’s my life message for fellow entrepreneurs.


John Corcoran  25:01

Which is what ended up happening. So you leave the game for about nine years and then you have an opportunity to acquire the business back at less than you bought it for. Right? How did that come about?


Russ Rosenzweig  25:13

Yeah, kind of this lesson so that was the exact details due to MDA is sure a lot. Yeah, let’s just say, sell high buy back low is definitely message. God, I


John Corcoran  25:26

got it. But how did you come to acquire the business that you sold nine years earlier? Why And What do you see? Can you achieve this next time or second time around?


Russ Rosenzweig  25:36

Well, frankly, I missed it. JOHN, I had, you know, involved myself in a variety of pretty exciting activities, including this sort of mediation role with fellow entrepreneurs who are fighting with each other. I dabbled in Israeli Palestinian peace negotiations. I worked, litigation finance, I worked in a variety of fields. And it was fun and enjoyable. But nothing was quite like my beloved roundtable group, I really missed it. And I kind of had the good sense to sort of stay in touch with Thomson Reuters and my former employees. You know, I just kind of sensed an opportunity, I kind of called over there to check in and see how everything’s going and, you know, by, frankly, miracle, they were going through a period of divestment. They really wanted to be a data company and you know, had a particular area of focus and you know, asked me if I wanted to buy my baby back. And, you know, I basically got the old band back together my same two beloved co-founding partners from the original roundtable group 1.0, we decided It all three of us kind of missed it, and had a very enjoyable sort of negotiation and due diligence with them. funny little quick little side note is, you know, big companies like Thomson Reuters are very skilled at due diligence when they buy companies. And it’s a very, very rigorous process that an entrepreneur has to go through if being bought by a publicly-traded fortune 500 company. And so when the coin got flipped, and it was our turn to buy them, I told them, Listen, guys, we have a very thorough and rigorous due diligence process. Basically, we just hand you over all the questions that you asked us nine years ago. We had a very fun, enjoyable negotiation that went quickly. That’s funny.


John Corcoran  27:53

And what’s been like being back with your co-founders after a decade apart


Russ Rosenzweig  28:00

It’s been heavenly john and there’s just been nothing like it. I like can’t even sleep due to excitement. And when I wake up in the morning and there are problems to solve, I just like get on my knees in gratitude to actually have some nice problems to solve once again. And, and, you know, we spent the last several months kind of, you know, come up landing the plane and taking over the leadership and, you know, kind of honing and refining and getting roundtable group really ready for our next 25 years and like right as where, just as that was about to happen, COVID-19 hits. So very interesting times for us all for sure.



Yeah, for many businesses.


John Corcoran  28:46

I want to ask you a bit about the mediation which you mentioned, something that I don’t know if you’d call it a profession or if it was more of like a passion, but that’s how we met was I heard you came very highly recommended by others for your skill in helping entrepreneurs and executives with sticky disputes. We’ll put it that way. So I wanted to ask you about that. What is your approach? And what is your philosophy because, you know, as a for myself when I was a litigator, and I helped parties with litigation, there’s often incredible amounts of emotion involved. And it’s, it’s not easy to be a mediator. It’s a very hard job. There’s so many different levers to pull. It’s not, you know if you watch like TV crime dramas, or you see judges on TV or something, it’s never that simple. You have to work with a lot of different emotions, a lot of different psychology. And oftentimes, these are things that have been boiling for years. So talk a little bit about your approach and how you develop this skill set, because that’s not an easy skill set, especially for someone who didn’t practice for many years as a litigator.


Russ Rosenzweig  30:00

Yeah, thanks for asking, john, I think this also is kind of an accidental skill set that I developed, you know, first of all over 25 years, in a particular industry, you know, I feel like I’ve kind of been through nearly everything, you know, from starting of a new venture to nearly failing, running out of money, you know, fast growth, fast growth LED, you know, that led to decline during a recession, and then kind of restarting and, you know, looking into buying companies and then getting acquired and then buying companies after being acquired, buying it back. And, you know, me and my partners, frankly, have been through every imaginable emotion in the course of all these years of doing business. So I, you know, I have like just this experience that fellow entrepreneurs who would find useful having just been through so many things, but secondly, in my industry, like just every week, john from for week after week, month after month, year after year for a quarter-century, like my life’s work is being involved in disputes. And you know, every like day, we get 20 plus more requests for experts about a complex dispute, and I have a front row, I see how the disputes originated. I see how the dispute evolves. I get to participate sometimes in attempts to settle the dispute. And then I see how things wind up if it goes to trial. And, you know, my kind of main insight from all this is, you know, do not go to court, because litigation is just so stressful. Yeah, and not many people win in a litigation except for maybe the lawyers and, of course, the beloved expert witnesses. And, you know, the disputants don’t win. And you know, I am passionate about entrepreneurship. I’m deeply, deeply committed to the spirit of entrepreneurship and my social circles are with entrepreneurs. And, you know, it’s inevitable for entrepreneurs to have a disagreement. And what I found, john is that, you know, the moment two partners in a dispute, get a lawyer, it’s game over. Like there’s this phrase lawyer up like as soon as that happens, because trust usually is lost. And it really does turn into a dispute. So there’s like this window of time when a dispute is first beginning to brew that you need a different like, you really want to resolve it before anybody lawyers up and there aren’t many people like that. can help in this regard, you know, you can’t really go to a therapist, because they don’t have the business experience. And, you know, lawyers themselves, you know, need to work for a side, there’s no like sort of coaching, to my knowledge that’s available to help resolve disputes before they become too big. So that’s kind of my accidental skill set, because I’m just really passionate about helping fellow entrepreneurs just like resolve disputes. And you know, just come to an amicable conclusion and like what I like to call, I’ll get out at the end, and I’m just very passionate about trying to get to that outcome before it turns into a legal dispute. Right, right.


John Corcoran  33:47

Now you had before we wrap things up, I want to ask about one other business, which I know you and I talked about a previous time we talked which was managing expert witnesses right now. The other business that you had you want to talk a little about that one?


Russ Rosenzweig  34:04

Sure, a little bit. Yeah, that’s one of the things I did during what I like to call my Napoleonic exile. I’m the expert witness industry, you know, many of the experts that joined roundtable group in the early years, you know, in our early years, as I mentioned, we only work with professors and you know, fast forward to today’s times. A lot of those professors like how do I say, really loved me because I helped catalyze their expert witness careers. Many of them just didn’t even know what that was until they got a call from me and roundtable group. And you know, over the years, they’ve done quite a lot of engagements now. And they’ve also become, for the most part very significant in their field. A lot of those early professors have now become Dean’s and department chairs and Provost and even university presidents have become the cases And you know, when you reach that kind of stature, it’s, you know, a lot of experts at this level still enjoy serving as an expert witness. But you know, when the conversation turns towards things like billing rates and retainers and contracts and collecting on invoices, it’s, you know, a little bit the word beneath the station, for the world’s top experts to even like be involved in negotiating their rates and, you know, collecting on invoices and things of that nature. So I’ve had the very exciting, good fortune of, you know, just having a lot of friends in the professor circles who basically use me as a kind of an agent or manager or business manager the way a rockstar would typically have a business manager. And that’s, you know, been a very enjoyable sort of complimentary line of work, to our sort of core excellence. Witness business, huh?


John Corcoran  36:02

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. Well, I know we’re running out of time. And so I want to wrap things up with the question I was asked, which is Ross, let’s pretend we’re at an awards banquet, much like the Oscars and the Emmys and you’re receiving an award for lifetime achievement for everything you’ve done up until this point, and we all want to know is no Who do you think who in addition to family and friends, of course, but who else? Who are the business partners? Who are the mentors? Who are the friends who are the expert witnesses? Who are the litigators, who are the business partners? Who are the people that you would acknowledge in your remarks?


Russ Rosenzweig  36:33

Yeah, I mean, beyond family and friends who have just been so incredibly supportive through the highs and the lows, especially my parents, my wife, Lucy, you know, first and foremost on the list would be my amazing business partners, Bob and Chris for you know, 27 years now. We’ve just been through everything together and we still love working together and still love this. business and it’s just like, without the three of us, just none of this could have happened. We’ve also been very blessed to have colleagues. We’ve had this unusually good hiring success. Most of the roundtable ORS are with us, like 10 to 20 plus years. People don’t usually leave once they join us here and the true magic of our company is, you know, really rests with our colleagues. clients, of course, you know, just, it’s like a dream come true. Being able to work with the premier litigators at World Class firms. Many of them took a chance with us, you know, in 1997 and said, Sure, why not? Let’s see what you could do. And that combined with our suppliers, the experts, and professors where it all started, you know, it’s like a double blessing because we get to work with brilliant clients who work on some of the most significant disputes of our time. And our job is to find them, you know, world-class elite professors and other experts who themselves are joyful to work with. And maybe one last category I would add, in terms of gratitude is I actually do want to thank our competitors. You know, we actually kind of all know each other, we respect each other. And it’s, you know, that competitive entry that turned us from, you know, merely a $30 million company into, you know, like a couple of hundred million dollar industry and really did you know, lift that tide which lifted all the, all the ships and it’s good work, you know, it’s like we, together as a group in this industry feel like where we have like a little bit of a higher calling than most businesses and least in my mind, we feel like we’re, you know, sort of serving justice. And, and, you know, engaged in just making sure that like, the best and most qualified expert witnesses on the stand, because otherwise, you know, Justice might not be served. So, you know, that’s kind of the immediate list that comes to mind for Thank you.


John Corcoran  39:24

That’s a great way to look at it. Yeah. It’s like that’ll really drive you forward and really motivate you. Well, Ross, this has been great. roundtable group is the name of the company and where can people go to learn more about you or connect with you or learn more about the different various different initiatives you’re involved in?


Russ Rosenzweig  39:43

They should go to roundtable group comm or connect with me on LinkedIn, Russ Rosenzweig. I’m unusually extroverted and enjoy connecting with fellow entrepreneurs. So I look forward to getting to know some people in your community john


John Corcoran  40:00

Great and then Russ, are you? SSR OSENZWG correct?



Yes. Got it. Okay, good.



All right. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Russ. Thanks, everyone. Cheers.