Jason Friedman 11:54
I was open so let’s see if that is any better. Would you say? Just close the browser that I had open? So let’s see if that’s any better? Okay,
John Corcoran 12:02
yeah, maybe that was it or something. Okay. All right. We’ll, we’ll pick up from there. So 321. Alright, so you’re selling all these different bedding? Or rather you shift from selling the bed platforms to leasing them or renting them out to people? How are you managing to do school at the same time? Are you running a million dollar plus business?
Jason Friedman 12:28
Team? How do you do it? And How do you do it today? Right? How do you guys run an amazing business at Rise25? If it was just you and Jeremy, how would you do it? You couldn’t? It’s it the same thing? It’s you know, Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy have that book who does not? How right. Yeah, very much that it’s like how do you build a team that can support you who are who are the Who’s that you need to be able to do what you need. And in my case, you know, with the snow shoveling, it was my friends. Like we all wanted to have some extra spending money. We all like to go out and do stuff together. And so we were playing kickball rather than shoveling snow and we made some money doing it and had a good time and had snowball fights. And it wasn’t all work right there. And then, you know, in college, it’s like, you need money for pizza and beer and whatever else. And so all the theater students, they’re in the shop anyway, they love building the stuff and it’s like they were here. I was like, when you brought that thing in and set it up people thought that you were a God, like you just replaced that I’m like living in college like beautiful. Yeah, I’m so happy. So yeah. And so we were delivering joy, like, honestly, and it was fun.
John Corcoran 13:41
And it sounds like that kind of business really helped to kind of forge your appreciation of the value of creating a real experience for the customers. So are there any examples of ways in which you did that? Were there little touches that you did or anything like that? No.
Jason Friedman 14:00
And like we repeat so much now about all this that I didn’t know what it was called back then. But like this idea of this kind of concept of mass customization, right? We weren’t selling one loft that all looked the same way you can make yours look, however you want yours to look, you can make it your own. Right, you can pick your own finish on it, that we’d have the scenic artists paint, you would pick the colors, you’d pick the textures, you’d pick whatever to make it your own. Like you’d pick the rugs and all that like you you were able to take your dorm room and make it unique to you. And so like that’s and that’s a one of the ways that we make experience, right? We’re solving a problem like you go to like we talk a lot today about friction points. Like if you think about things that are like making something more difficult or an obstacle, right you go to college and you’re living away from home you probably lived in a slightly bigger or even if your dorm room is the size of the bedroom that you had at home.
You’re now scrammed into it with another person who has other friends that aren’t necessarily your friends and they’re all kind of calm, irrigating, you don’t have your own space? Well, this all of a sudden, like doubled the amount of space that you had in the room and gave you a much better place and a much better environment to learn the hang out to do your thing, it’s like, it’s a massive upgrade. And I think you probably would understand and probably know, like, how important environment is like with the things that you do, like, if you’re working, you know, I like to do different kinds of work in different kinds of spaces, because I’m my creative juices kind of get flowing in a different way. And I think, you know, if you think about the journey that people have in college, we’re just helping them make that journey better. And then the way that we would deliver it, like we came in with smiles, and we cleaned up after ourselves, and we didn’t leave a mess. And we called and let them like we were, we were punctual, we didn’t give them like a six hour delivery window. It’s like I was sent home from all your classes, because we’re going to be by, like, at night and you know, on weekends in, you know, whatever. Whatever we could write, but like, we just tried to be cool. You know what I mean? And we didn’t know enough about everything, like how to be the most efficient, where we probably should have said, Look, you will have a four hour delivery window. Sorry, we probably would progress, but we didn’t worry about that. It just wasn’t the cards, it was really more about what was going to make it work for everybody. And, and go from there.
John Corcoran 16:22
And it’s interesting hearing you describe this situation where it’s a collaborative environment you’re working with probably friends other you know, theater students that you get along with really well, you’re organizing this team, you’re building a recurring revenue model where you’re leasing out all of these, you know, items, then flash forward to a couple years later, you’re working with rock and roll bands, which don’t generally have the best reputation for punctuality. You know, maybe the ones that you worked with, didn’t have, didn’t live the rock and roll lifestyle. But I’m interested to know, like, how you went from that environment, when you were building the dorms to, you know, being a roadie and lighting designer and that’s such a different environment. It’s such a different lifestyle.
Jason Friedman 17:05
Thank you, but maybe not right, like when I went to college, I went to college, my degree was in lighting design, right, I went to school to be a lighting designer. And we’ll call it a tech director, like the set builders and set kind of like, not the design of sets, but the construction of right. So it was like the design of lighting and the construction of the backstage type stuff. And so the last thing, like I think most of my business ideas have come out of trying to solve a problem, right. And my best friend Drew and I, he’s, he’s been with me, since I was about five, six years old. And he’s still my partner in business. Now it’s, you know, years later, and we’re still best friends. You know, when we were teenagers, I just remember driving down the road in my silver 1985 Pontiac TransAm, which we affectionately, Thunder chicken.
Such a cool car was a cool car, and I thought it was cooler back then. I tried to go back once and it was a disaster for another time. But, we were so frustrated by bad experiences that we had. And we just couldn’t believe that, for the extra effort it would take to make it not be horrible that people didn’t take that effort. And our joke always was we should make a business called making it better. And that’s what our business is, it’s making it making a better dream back then. And so if you look at all these different businesses, even the work in rock and roll, it’s always about making it better, right? That’s a lot of my life, like how do we make it better? How do we improve, it’s in my own personal development, with my children, with my family, with my friends, with my clients, with my friends, my partners, whatever, it’s, how do we make it better? And I’ve just been on this kind of quest, always to have a better experience, right. And as you think about the Rock and Roll tours, when the Rock and Roll groups, the actual musicians and the singers and whatever, when they actually show up, that’s a whole different thing. But the crew, we are punctual as the day is long, and we get there we get it up, it’s ready. So whenever those jokers decide to show up, we’re ready to rock and roll and the cost for like the tour groups that are producing these all that has to be dialed in if we’re sloppy, and we cost them an extra $100,000 and local crew and all that that doesn’t fly. So like the choreography, if you like the fine tuned Swiss watch kind of thing that happens in rock and roll and in theater everywhere else because there’s so many costs and so many moving parts.
The logistics are really dialed in, even when the show starts. You know every theatrical show is like time down to the minute there’s all the unions and overtime and this and that and you don’t let that happen right and by way to make sure that we have a consistent experience is to measure right and to do that, right. So, yeah, the Rock and Roll groups might be drunk and they might roll in a little bit late in the show and might be, you know, off to a slow start. But we’re already at the time that we were supposed to be from the backstage side. So so the loosey goosey, this just doesn’t exist on the production side. Band side, that’s another story. And honestly, if you look at all the Broadway tours and stuff, and even like, if you look at movies and film production, it is very tightly run, because the costs and the unions and the day overtime that double time, the golden time and this, it gets so complicated. So you have to be dialed in, in order to make those things happen, stay somewhat reasonably on budget, and
John Corcoran 20:48
What are the connections between what drew you to this desire to create a performance and create beautiful lighting, design and acoustical and all that kind of stuff? And the work that you do now, because I’m imagining there’s a connection between the two? Yeah,
Jason Friedman 21:03
I don’t see it differently. I know it looks different on the outside, right. But, you know, I got started. It was, again, another happy accident. I went to a summer camp when I was growing up. And when I was, this is, when I was eight was a very foundational moment for me and my development. But I was at camp. The name of the camp was Pine Grove day camp. And they had electives in the afternoon, and it was mostly for the older kids, but littler kids were able to be in like the camp play. And so I was there and I met this kid, his name was Billy and Billy graner. And Billy wanted to try out for the camp talent show or musical or whatever it was. And he was afraid to kind of go by himself. So he’s like, Hey, would you go with me? And I’m like, yeah, like, I’ll go with you.
So I went there. And I was sitting in the back of the little playhouse that they had. And Billy went up on stage. And he sang Happy Birthday, and you know, did his whole thing like a little audition. And while I’m sitting there in the back, there’s this guy who looked just like Wolfman Jack, if you remember that character, and his name. And he was building this like, banging wood together and stuff. He was building a flat, like a scenery backdrop kind of thing. And I was like, watching him and I forgot about what was happening on stage. And I was just fixated on what he was doing. And, and like, he went over. And he was like playing with a Light Board, a little bit when they needed something on stage where he had a dress, a micro adjusting microphone. And then he went back to building the set. And I was like, I went over and kind of sat next to him. I was like, What are you doing? He was like, telling me what he’s doing. And he’s like, you want to help? And I’m like, yeah, like, let me help. And so I started, like, being on the stage crew. And we got into the show, and I became one of the stage crew people. And I was moving stuff on, I was dressed in all black and you know, doing the whole backstage thing. And Billy became like an actor and a singer over the years. And it started at a camp and I became the lighting guy and the set guy and the sound guy, AV guy. And when I was, like, 13, when you become like a counselor in training at the camp, be that guy Mark’s job, like, just come work full time and be the theater, like the backstage guy. Because I had been doing it for so long. And I was that kid in school. And I just was always that theater geek kid that did all the tech stuff and built the SATs, and did all that. And it became like a real passion for me.
And so I did all those when I was in high school, like they’d given me keys to the high school to like, let outside groups that rented the auditorium and like, and I controlled all of that. And it just became like my thing. And it was about solving problems and telling stories and making that audience like, when you’re in theater, you’re very aware of your audience, like it is, obviously it’s, it seems obvious, right? But it’s like, you are directly playing to that audience. And it doesn’t necessarily correlate exactly that directly when you’re looking at it, but it really does correlate like your customers or your audience. And yes, your employees are your audience and like to understand, like, how do I create that experience for my audiences that are going to keep them engaged, that are going to keep them excited, that are going to give them that that feeling of transformation, and it just kind of Mr. Miyagi getting through life, like just learning it without realizing I at some point when it crossed over which was like when we were building that theater, and I was the guy like I learned all like the drafting skills and the the acoustic type stuff and all the all the scientific stuff.
But what I also had learned which a lot of these other people that were more experienced in building theaters, and I was, is I had a lot of show experience, even by 20 something years old, because I hadn’t been doing it since I was eight. And like really thinking through like the experience from the perspective of like the touring show that’s going to come through this theater? What do they need? That’s going to make their experience better? What does the audience need in this theater that they don’t usually get? How do we, I know how do we maximize space so that we can maybe fit a few more seats in, but we don’t take away so it’s so crowded and cramped that people don’t want to sit there and enjoy the show. And so I just asked questions a little bit differently than I think other people might have been asking at the time. And you know, that it’s no different than what I do. Now. I’m asking questions like, how do we help this customer? Like if someone joins your business, and they hire you guys to help put on their podcast? I know, because I’ve talked to you and Jeremy so many times over the years. And even like, you know, we brainstorm some stuff over the years, but like, how do we make it a great experience for them? What do we need to do to take off their plate where the friction points what’s going to stop them from having success with their podcast, and you guys have done an amazing job of really trying to take all the details and really think them through and support them, and also give them options that are so you’re mass customization? Like, if you guys really want to do this? You can if you want us to do that we can? Yeah. It’s no different than putting on a show.
John Corcoran 26:18
It really, I’m curious, because I want to, I want to ask you about that mass customization idea. Because there’s always a tension between giving the client 100% of what they want, and creating something that’s a system and a process and maybe a template for what you want to build, you know, you’re building bunk beds, you weren’t building, you know, double decker, triple decker bunk beds, and you weren’t building I don’t know, jungle gyms inside of someone’s there are limits, in other words to what you’ll build. So how are you? How do you balance that and have the cap that, you know, the customer will be happy? Especially where they might have some kind of outlandish or outside of the box? You know, demand that they have for you?
Jason Friedman 27:01
Yeah, well, listen, I mean, there’s always going to be a customer that has an outside of the box demand, right, and you have to decide if you want to honor that and your business or not. And if you do want to honor that, to me, if someone seemed to be like, I want a triple decker bunk bed, you know, or loft system or whatever, I’d say, awesome. That’s gonna be a $1,000 design fee. And then I’ll tell you what it’s going to cost to do the rest. It’s not our standard process. So it’s not in our standard pricing. So we’ll figure it out and let you know how much you’ll be. But there’s $1,000, to just figure it out. If you want to do that, you can pay for that. And then we’ll help you figure it out. At that point, I can give you a budget and a timeline. And that way they can say yes or no, right? But different things than the normal thing I sell, right? Where mass customization comes in, like Tesla is a great example. Right? You go in, they have X number of different models. And then there’s different ways that you can customize what you get. You can have two wheeled drugs, you know, two motors, four motors, you have this, you can have that, you can change the color, you can change this, you can change that.
So in Porsche it is the same way, right? You can really change so many different things. But there’s a limit, like you can’t do everything, but you can change a lot of things. And they figured that out. And so that allows people to put their own kind of fingerprint, if you will, on their product or their service or whatever they’re getting, that makes it perfect for them. And so the answer is not that you should always do that. Right? The answer is that you could do that. And when you do that, if you create the right boundaries, and most importantly, you set the right expectations and manage those expectations. I think I know it’s really powerful, right? Because, like Starbucks, you can mass customize your own drink, like no two lattes have to be exactly the same. But you have one pump, two pumps, one shot, three shots, five shots, they can easily do that, and you have your perfect beverage. And it’s easy, it’s just the price is different.
Right, right. Right.
John Corcoran 28:52
I want to ask you about you end up through the theater world through the shows the Rock and Roll shows you are doing first of all, actually, I think the last time I had a guest on that that was in that was in the Rock and Roll world. I asked this question, what’s the craziest experience or story from the rock and roll world that you can share? And you don’t have to share the identity of the band?
Jason Friedman 29:14
The craziest that I can share? I mean, some of them gets so crazy that I wouldn’t be comfortable sharing with a public audience. But I think the craziest was, well, it depends how you define Crazy, right? There was a lot of fun times. I just think like probably the craziest thing in you know, like, all of them were very similar in that, you know, you literally live on a bus on rock’n’roll tours, right? So you’re on these like big motorcoaches like, you know, you’d see people commuting in you know, a city near you, whatever. But on these motor coaches, they’re, they’re made to be more like, you know, campers, right. So there’s bunks in the middle. There’s like common areas and And, you know, a very small bathroom. And what ends up happening in the rock’n’roll world is you’re usually in a city for one night, maybe two, if you’re lucky. And then the two nights, they put you up at a hotel for one of the two nights and you get a shower, which, but most of the rest of the time, you’re like, on a bus, off the bus, into the venue back on the bus.
Overnight, while they’re taking you to the next venue, you jump out and you do it. And it’s just like this, like crazy monotony, like you really lose track of time and space. Like a zombie. I got. So that was like, kind of traditional. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy in that, like, you think how important sleep is, and we’re doing things like over people’s heads and whatever, and you’re just not getting it. You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s like crazy life. One one time. I know you’re a big fan of Fleetwood Mac, right. So we were now when I toured with Fleetwood Mac, it was a summer tour. It wasn’t very long. I don’t remember how many stops but maybe like 20 stops or something like that as a very small kind of tour. But it was also not in a good time for for the band. Right. They had lost a that ups and downs. Yeah. Over the years, and plenty of them, right. You probably even know more about them than I actually do to be totally frank. But Stevie had left and they had Becca as their lead singer. And they were playing like a, b, c and d destinations. So they weren’t having, like, you know, big arenas and they weren’t playing stadiums. We were playing like bars, and like, larger bars are like outdoor sheds, where you know, the seating is all out.
Oh, and there’s a big kind of roof over the stage. And that’s it. And we walked into this or pulled into this one bar. It was in Hilton Head, South Carolina. And it was so small, we couldn’t bring any of our gear and like we couldn’t bring lights in. So we took two sets of trusts and we kind of made this like a makeshift lighting rig, something that you’d see like at a literally shitty bar band. Really dumpy place where big guys got like a Light Board. You just flashing red, blue, red? Yeah, we did our best we could, we got it all set up. And then Mick Fleetwood walks in. And, you know, he always walked in with his drum sticks ready to go hit the drums on the stage. soundcheck and check his kit out. And he was so angry. He’s like, you know, like, he couldn’t believe that this is where his career had gotten him to hit rock bottom. And it was funny on the one hand, but it was tragic. On the other hand, I can only imagine having the highs and the heights and playing all these things.
And now you’re in a venue that could maybe see 200 people, brutal. Oh, ceilings, and whatever. And, and to me, you know, I was so young, you know, I was like, in my early 20s. Like I was out there living life. Like me, it was super cool. So like I’m playing with Fleetwood Mac, right? Yeah. We’re in the middle of, you know, some other places in the country. And, and it was like, life is short. And there’s lots of buttons and downs. And I was just like, like a huge life lesson. I couldn’t even tell you exactly what the lesson was. But I just felt like this. Grab a toss of the ball. Yeah, yeah, for sure. He was having a tantrum and like, and I could feel it like I felt for him. And it was a crazy moment. Like I just, I wasn’t prepared to even understand how to process that at the time. But it’s true for all of us. Right? We come full circle. And we have these absolutely,
John Corcoran 33:29
Yeah, I mean, it’s good to witness that at a younger age, because we all have highs and lows throughout our careers. I want to ask you about this experience that you had when one company you’re working for gave you an opportunity to basically build out an entire theater that was located in Reno, Nevada, and it took about a year or something like that. And you struck a really interesting deal with them in order to get some upside very entrepreneurial views. Tell us about that one. Yeah, so
Jason Friedman 33:54
like, you know, my journey was a little bit crazy. So I finished college a little early, and I did an internship with a company called theater projects, consultants, Richard bilbrough, who is like a famous lighting designer, Broadway lighting designer on this company. And they worked with architects to like whenever they were going to build a theater, they would help with all the theater specific stuff that goes into the architectural seal architect would design the architecture and the balls in the buildings, but the theater consultant would help them figure out how do you get the right lighting positions? And how do you where do you put the speakers and what how does the stage where it can all the mechanics on the stage. And so I got to work there for a semester to kind of finish off my college career. And then I didn’t really want a desk job. So I went on and did the rock’n’roll thing and some theater touring, but I got bored honestly, like it’s you can only do the same show night after night.
What I loved was figuring out how to get the show working and make it awesome. And then once it was awesome and on like auto. I was kind of done so I’d like on Yeah. And so in doing that there was a company in New Jersey that I had been kind of renting all the lighting gear from for all these tours and stuff and they knew that I had done that. That internship, and they got a job to build this theater in Reno and like to be their consultant and provide all the equipment. So it’s a big job, and one that they had never done before. So they had reached out to me and said, Hey, you ready to leave the road? And I was like, by golly, I am ready to leave the road. They’re like, well, like, what if What about you leave the road but you stay in one place. Like we have this gig in Reno and you want to go like live in Reno for a year and, you know, really kind of be the project manager on this whole thing. I was like, we can talk about it. So it happens that I had like a two week break on my tour coming up. So I went home and met with them. And when you’re touring with theater, you make a lot of money. Right? So I was a 20 something year old kid, I was making low six figures and had no expenses, right? I didn’t have one, I didn’t have a family. They were paying all my travel expenses and everything, I was just putting money in the bank every week, and honestly didn’t really need the money anyway, and made a bunch of money doing other stuff. So it was really about the experience. And they wanted to basically take my salary and cut it in third. I was making and while I didn’t need the money, I also needed a little bit of a scorecard.
Like it just felt wrong. I’m gonna be doing work for you. That is the only person that you know that can do this work, and you’re gonna pay me a whole lot less than I’m making. Yeah. So I said, Look, I’ll take that with a couple of modifications. I googled them a little bit, and whatever. But I said, but I want some upside, like, how can I? How can I get a bonus, like if I do a really great job or whatever. And so we talked about it for a while, and they were like, Look, if you can save us or make us more money than we anticipate, we’ll give you a percentage of that upside. So if we were planning to make a million bucks, and you bring us in 1,000,001, we’ll give you 10% of that extra 100,000. So you’ll make, you’ll make 10,000.
John Corcoran 36:47
And they’re thinking this kid’s in, maybe he makes us an extra 50 100k or
Jason Friedman 36:52
something like that, you know, like they weren’t thinking it was gonna be a lot of dough. And so I moved out there. I ran this project pretty much single handedly. I mean, I use them for ordering the gear and all that but like I was running it and just kind of sending in work orders like for equipment and stuff like that. And I was mad. And we had a couple of subcontractors that were working with us like I didn’t do everything, but like, you know, I was managing everything. And while I was out there, the owner of the project, Don Corrado Ferrari Khurana wineries, was in Evansdale. He had owned the Eldorado at the time, I don’t know if he still does also on the Friday Karana or winery. He took a liking to me because they were building this theater, it was his baby. And so he had my cell phone number he’d call me at night be like, Hey, I got a bunch of high rollers, Can you meet me down at the theater, I’m gonna walk them through, I’d get up out of my apartment, I drive into the you know, like, I was just his his guy. And you know, he loved me. And every time he’d get a crazy idea, he called me to be like, hey, what if we added this, or what if we did this, instead, I’m like, let me get you a price, we’ll see if you want it if it’s what you want.
And so I ended up building such a great relationship with this guy and ended up selling them, you know, a hefty sum more, more stuff. And so the projected profit versus what they were anticipating to what we ultimately made, it ended up being a lot more than anybody anticipated. they owed me basically $100,000, not five or 10,000. When the project finished, the owners were ecstatic. They told the owners of my company, and they invited them to come out of the grand opening. And we’re gushing about me, it was very embarrassing for me at the time, I wasn’t used to like accolades or, or getting all those attaboys anyway, we fit, we fly home. And I went in to talk to the owner. And I was like, you know, I’m like, I really appreciate the opportunity. You know, I did all the math and worked out all the budgets. And it turns out that, you know, it’s like, it was like $103,000, or something like that, that they owed me. And he was shocked. And he’s like, but like, you’re 2223 years old. I’m like, what does that have to do with the amount of money that I’m owed. He’s like, You don’t understand why we have to pay taxes on this money and all this other stuff. And I’m like, Listen, I’m like, you don’t have to pay taxes on the money, you pay me, I’ll pay the taxes on that. That’s not a problem. And he’s like, you know, he’s like, look, he’s like, I’ll give you 30 grand, and we’ll call it a day. And I was a gutted man like I was. I thanked him. I took the money. And then I gave them my notice. And I just felt like I was completely abused.
John Corcoran 39:31
Like, you know, years of working so hard.
Jason Friedman 39:34
And, I did without like it. I had a budget and the budget I had that I could hire an assistant out there to like be with me. And that would have been an extra $60,000 or something like that. I didn’t hire that assistant because I wanted to save money on the project. I knew I could handle it alone. And I did. But then you know, they took that away like yeah, I remember he argued with me like look, I made a deal with Avis where I was able to get a Long term rental for half the price it would have cost us to get a regular rental. And he’s like, Well, I would have just bought a car, you should have given me that option. You took that option away from me, as if you bought a car, then you get stuck with the car and you’d have to sell it. He’s like that, but I should have been able to make that decision. I’m like, Dude, the budget was for like $40,000 for this car, it costs us less than 20. I saved $20,000. Like, where’s the happiness for the great job. There was no talking to him. It was just when I started my business. Like literally two weeks later, I gave my notice I started my business. And honestly, like, never really looked back. But it was just one of those moments. And I will say like I had one or two more of those moments where I got caught in such a similar way for just being very trusting of people. I had a handshake. I didn’t have a doubt in the agreement written.
You should. Yeah. Like, you know, you’re a lawyer. Right? Yeah. recovering lawyer. So definitely, I definitely didn’t know what I didn’t know.
John Corcoran 41:03
And I mean, you’re 2223 you know, you don’t know these things at that age.
Jason Friedman 41:07
Very quickly, you start getting mentors and other people and you start sharing these stories and you figure out like, I need help, I don’t know. Yeah, blind spots, you know.
John Corcoran 41:15
So, So what was this that inspires you into entrepreneurship or back into entrepreneurship, since there’d been a very strong thread of entrepreneurship in us and from a young age? Did you have a vision for what the company would be? Or is it just like shit, I need to start making money.
Jason Friedman 41:34
So what I remember, I remember thinking, and I remember sitting at my parents house, in the backyard by their pool, at this point, they had come up with some money and they had a pool after I and was moved out of the house, they seem to find money, and all of a sudden, my brother had a great life. But That’s fine. That’s another conversation with my past childhood traumas later.
John Corcoran 41:59
Elmi handled so many traumas and one podcast.
Jason Friedman 42:02
I’m out. So I was sitting out there, and I was like, I really did that whole project on my own, like, I probably couldn’t have sold the project without them. Right. They added a lot of gravitas and, and confidence to them selling it, but they did nothing. And I did it all. And it was a huge success. Like, I can do this. And so I started thinking, like, what is this though? And what this was, was really bringing theater technology into other spaces, right? Like, like, while we were there, like in Vegas, everything’s themed, right? Like, and everything’s like larger than life. And Reno similarly, right? Looking at the restaurants that were bringing in lighting and audio and video, and the retail stores that were starting to make it a cooler place. the.com boom was about to happen. People were starting to sell online. And retailers are trying to figure out how to create more excitement, more Wow, factor in our locations, and restaurants are doing the same. And I was like, that’s what I know how to do. I know how to bring this stuff in there and make it awesome. And so that’s really what the business was. My first client ended up being Universal Studios, because they knew me because I’ve done a couple projects there. And they built CityWalk in Orlando. And they were having a problem with Parkway, lighting control systems. So I got brought in to help them fix that small project to start things off. No, and they
were weeks from opening, they couldn’t get their final sign off from the city because they couldn’t get all the stuff working. And I knew how to do it. And so they brought me in and we did that. And then one thing led to another and then, you know, I started working with footlocker, which was connected to that universal project, the same similar people involved. And you just start leveraging those connections. And, you know, one thing, like I said, one thing led to another and you know, I had a team of 40 people, you know, not long after that we were doing projects.
John Corcoran 43:56
It wasn’t hard that it sounds like these were kind of like project based and sometimes it can be harder to staff up and get a team. Either you end up overspending when you are in between projects, or you end up having to let people go and hire freelancers. How did you balance that out? Yeah,
Jason Friedman 44:12
I didn’t. I learned a really hard joke. You should mention that. So we had that project, which was a multi year project, right. That was when we opened up over 1000 locations. The footlocker
John Corcoran 44:25
one you’re talking about with footlocker.
Jason Friedman 44:27
And John, when I told you, I didn’t realize we needed to be selling other clients because when that project ended I had all these people and I had no work. It was over 50 Wow. And I I was paying them at the time a pretty significant salary for who they were, what they were doing, their age, the whole nine yards. And I didn’t want to let people go because I had really built a great team. And I went into deep funk, deep depression, and that was 98 now 99 2000.
John Corcoran 45:05
And, just just on the cusp of the kind of.com meltdown there.
Jason Friedman 45:10
Yeah yeah, 100% and just around the time of 911. So we were just going into 2001. And we got a couple other small projects that were keeping things afloat, and 911 hats. And it really was a defining or redefining moment for me of like, what do we want to be? And how are we going to be that and who are we going to serve? And how are we going to help? And how are we going to contribute to the planet in a bigger way? And I had a business partner of sorts at that point, that was really bleeding us dry, in a lot of ways. And it was my wake up call that I needed to change, change things around in our business. And so I did, and we never looked back. And we went straight up like a rocket ship.
John Corcoran 46:02
And what were those changes? What are the big changes? By the way? You okay, on time? I know we’re running a little over here.
Jason Friedman 46:06
I’m good if you’re good. Yeah, I mean, I got rid of that partner that was really holding us back in so many ways. Like we didn’t have an alignment and our vision we didn’t, we didn’t see eye to eye and how to manage the team and people. Not that he’s a bad person. Not saying that at all, just was like no alignment, and there was no synergy there. And really, the reason that he was really there is that he was significantly older than me at the time, and I was still a young buck back then. And I was afraid that I wouldn’t be able to get those clients, like I told you, like, I knew that I had done that one project all on my own, but I didn’t think I could sell them. And I’m still worried about that. And if you really looked at the data, which I did, I was the only one that was still selling, that I was just masking and thinking, Oh, it’s someone else?
John Corcoran 46:57
And, did you have to also lay off people after 911 and make those types of changes?
Jason Friedman 47:03
You didn’t? You know, we, you know, we just got more serious about what we were doing and who we were doing it with and how we were doing it and just leaned into our clients in a bigger way.
John Corcoran 47:17
How did you manage if you were still doing projects? How did you manage the staffing?
Jason Friedman 47:22
I was doing high level stuff with clients more like strategy and big picture stuff. I wasn’t doing day to day management of project work at that chain very early on, and like I tell you my best friend’s business partner drew him, he didn’t start the company with me. So I started the company in 97. He came on in 2001. Right when I said we kind of made that I knew I needed a different partner. And so he was living in California at the time. And so what we had done is our business was based out of New Jersey, we opened up a California location to woo him over. And then I finally got him to move to New Jersey back to New Jersey because we grew up there. And so he moved back to New Jersey, and we really blew up the company together.
John Corcoran 48:14
So it’s a who’s who, not how right like within and sometimes that can be a disaster hiring someone you’ve been best friends with since you were five, maybe you’re comfortable with them. But what did he bring to the table that balanced you out?
Jason Friedman 48:22
If you are you, you down with the Gino Whitman traction course got
John Corcoran 48:28
to us behind me here.
Jason Friedman 48:29
Yeah. You know, he’s the integrator, you know. And so he was a visionary. He’s the integrator. And that doesn’t mean that he can’t be visionary. And I can’t do some integrator, but we try and stay in our lanes as much as we can. And you know, even before we were in that business, like we’d been doing other projects together, like the project I did in Reno, he helped with some of it, but we’ve always been doing stuff for each other. And when I had the business first, those other couples I told you I had no business outside of the foot locker initially, we grew that. And when I needed more clients, I’d reach out to him, we were talking and he’s like, I got a couple of things. Like if you guys want to manage some projects that we have at our East Coast base, like, I’ll give them to you guys. And so we were sharing from the company he was at we were doing, we were doing stuff the whole time, but then we just kind of made it more official, like come over here and let’s do this.
John Corcoran 49:18
Yeah. And you actually started some other companies before you ended up selling this company in 2008. How did you manage to start other companies while you’re still running this? What became a massive business?
Jason Friedman 49:30
Yeah, so partially add maybe a little bit of like, you know, false bravado and naivete. But like we had a software company that literally was software that we used for our clients in this business related, you will, and it was a whole different team, but we leaned in hard and that company, I didn’t start that company we bought and then we owned and took over and took over the management. So we’re there a lot. Just clients. And it was scary that somebody else could buy them. And they went on the block to get sold. And I was like, I’m not letting that happen. So let’s buy it. And so we did. That was my first real acquisition too. So I learned a whole lot in the process. We built it up. And I sold that business in 2010. After we had sold the other company, and we still were company, then we sold that.
John Corcoran 50:23
What inspired the first sale of the primary business in 2008? Did some company come to you? Or were you burnt out?
Jason Friedman 50:30
Neither I was at an Ink Magazine, we had, you know, been magazine winners for several years in a row 2000 789, I didn’t know that you had to apply for these things. So we wanted to, we probably would have been 2005 2006 also. And then I sold it in 2008. So I did in 2009. And then I left in 2010. So we probably would have got it then too. But they invite you to these conferences, right that are about growth and innovation and what have you. And so I was at a conference in 2006 or seven. I’m not sure about one of the two, probably six. And I was like in one of the breakout sessions. And I don’t remember who the speaker was. But I was, you know, a good little student sitting in the front row waiting for the session to start, you know, just kind of relaxed and feeling pretty cool.
And I guess it was 2007 Actually, because we had won the award. So 2007 Anyway, beyond pretty cool. We’d won the award, you know, we’re bad asses. And the guy gets up there. And he starts talking about how he grew his way so rapidly into bankruptcy. I was like, Ah, I don’t even understand what that means. And I don’t remember what the title of the workshop was that attracted me to go there. But somehow I ended up in this workshop, or this breakout session. And literally, he’s telling my story. And visceral reaction, John, like, like, like goosebumps, and like feeling like cold and like a little clammy, and like nauseous. And I’m like, Holy shit, we’re growing so rapidly, our growth is going to outpace our ability to cash flow, the growth, and never dawned on me we were growing so rapidly. And I was like, our culture was about growth. Like I remember getting up in front of our team talking about the growth and, and all this kind of great stuff. And I was committed to it. And I was realizing like I was going to be the one that could put us out of business. And I freaked, I freaked. So I flew home on the next flight that I could get out of, like I left the conference and flew home on a weekend. I got my team together with my leadership team at the time. And we had a heart to heart about this. And like we had, you know, maybe six months of ability to withstand and we had some lines of credit and stuff.
John Corcoran 52:55
But we were we break it down for me. Where was the problem?
Jason Friedman 53:00
That the growth that we were having, and the ways that as you get bigger clients, they’re slower to pay, right? Like we were doing a big project with Bank of America at that point, which is probably 30 million in revenue, I’m guessing if I’m recalling correctly, I could be off by 20, maybe it’s 40. But it was you know, let’s just say 30 million. They do not pay a net 30. Even if those are the pay net, 90, net, 120. Net, and whatever they want to do, and you’re stuck and you start getting a lot of the Fortune one hundreds, and the payments don’t come as timely and so much volume that the outlay is so much higher. And so for a small company, relatively speaking, you have payroll, you’re adding more staff, you’re buying equipment gear, you’re shipping all the expenses are getting bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger.
John Corcoran 53:50
And the timing of cash is not staying the the cash conversion cycle is taking a long time.
Jason Friedman 53:55
Yeah. run out of cash flow, right. So you have options, right? You can factor your receivables, if you can get through that. You can try and make you know, you can I mean depends on how much line of credit they’ll give you. Right? Because, you know, we had like, again, if I’m remembering, I don’t know, $15 million line of credit, but we were matched and very pleased to be. Yeah, yeah. I just remember going all right, like we have options, right? Option one is we can try and factor receivables and whatever. If we can find somebody option two, we can slow down our growth, we can just start telling no to clients and slow it down. Talk to our clients and see if we can do something about expediting our receivables without looking like we’re weak and having them get nervous about our stability and just lose the client altogether. We can go out there and find outside investment capital that will really give us the funding that we need. And so I didn’t know a lot about raising money or anything like that, but we went out on the street for investment bankers and people that can help us with that. And we found a great guy, John Hennessy, a really dear friend of mine now, and he helped us value the business, he helped us figure out how to put a book together for the business.
He showed us all the areas that we were maybe not optimized for, that we should try and get our house in order a little bit more to get more benefit. And we were going to do what they call a leveraged recap, right? So we’re going to sell a small portion of equity in the business for some exchange equity for cash and keep it in the business but use it to float it. We didn’t want to sell the company yet. We weren’t ready. Yeah, we built the book, they went out to the market, and we had this crazy experience where so many people wanted to buy the company 100% of it, like crazy, like the big ad agencies like Interpublic IPG, Omnicom wanted to buy us.
John Corcoran 55:55
We have very different types of business models. What do you think drew them to you?
Jason Friedman 55:58
They wanted an experiential platform. We were doing events as well as, you know, retail stuff, like how do you create massive experiences for people so or was at their theme park, it was after events, and they wanted experiential activation agency. And that was us. All their selves thought of us as an agency, but we were Yes. They wanted that. And we were redic. Like, aside from the cash flow issue, the profits were ridiculously high, like we were a profitable company, we just couldn’t handle the cash flow cycle with the amount of growth that we were doing. And so we had a hard thing to face like that we had to sell the company, really to keep it alive, or we had to just shut down the growth. And to me, if you’re not growing, you’re dying. So I just felt very incongruent with everything I’ve ever said to anybody. So we decided that we would move forward with a sale.
John Corcoran 56:54
And, It was a life changing amount of money. But was there a part of you that was heartbroken. But once you came to that realization, or was it like, oh, you know, this is great, this is what I wanted.
Jason Friedman 57:05
No, this was, that’s my identity was so wrapped up in this company, the company was me. Like it was my baby. It started with me sitting on the back porch of my family’s house over front of the pool. And the thing that got me out of that other bad situation, and it was, it was my baby. I was not prepared to sell it for any amount of money. I just didn’t have a choice. Like, it’s like, you know, it’s like, you gotta let your kids grow up at some point and take on their own. And it was like, I wasn’t ready for that moment.
John Corcoran 57:36
Yeah. Did you go into a funk or depression after you did sell it?
Jason Friedman 57:40
years? Six years, literally, years? Six years. Now, we are passive now, but it was a long time.
John Corcoran 57:51
Yeah, that has been a long time.
Jason Friedman 57:54
I know a lot of other founders who had a similar situation, not in why they sold but that they did sell and their identity was still connected with their idea of something else, and they got paralyzed. And it’s bittersweet, right? Because everyone’s like, Okay, you asshole, like, you just got all this money. And you’re, like, the world’s smallest violin, right? Exactly. And it’s like, you know, what, it’s really not like that. And, you know, until you’ve been in it, you can’t really understand.
John Corcoran 58:21
What is there? What, if anything, would you have done differently? Now looking back on it?
Jason Friedman 58:28
A lot of things. I mean, first and foremost. If I mean, I would, knowing what I know, now, I would not have let us get into that growth problem that we got into where we were forced to make a decision, because we were, I feel like we were forced to make a decision. And that, to me, is not really freedom. I don’t like being forced into something, especially at your own hand. Right? I did that right without knowing.
But I think, you know, really keep an eye on where your identity is and what your identity is connected to. And if it’s connected to the business that way, that’s probably not healthy. For you, it’s probably also not healthy for the business. And that was one of the things that they wanted to lock me in for a really long time. And they needed to shut off right and I was locked in for longer than I was there. I left because they made the situation untenable for me.
John Corcoran 59:27
But it’s so common you hear that really frequently after people sold their business that they end up leaving before they you know, expected to.
Jason Friedman 59:35
And like it was like swallowing the end of a revolver or leaving like one of the two, you know, wasn’t doing that to my kids. But it was a tough time and again, your identity even when I was there, and I sold it. It wasn’t my company anymore. Because they were changing things that made it it’s hard because like they they very much like said like we’re buying this and we want to keep it the way it is like we love what You’ve done and then like, they’re saying that on one side, and then on the other side, they’re like, now let’s change everything. Yeah. It’s tough.
John Corcoran 1:00:11
So, so you, you end up selling it, you end up going kind of in a funk depression for six years, and you end up launching CX formula, which is really focusing on helping businesses improve their customer experience is obviously something you’re really passionate about. Was there something that motivated you to start a new company after six years? And what was that experience? Like starting over again?
Jason Friedman 1:00:33
Yeah, I mean, I had a few other little businesses that were not similar. Before that that did, okay. But I had a noncompete, so I couldn’t do anything until the end of 2016. So that’s when it happened, first of all, and then second of all, one of my clients, which was Stanford University, at the time, came back, and was like, we need you. We need your help. And so we came back. And we were at the time we were launching anyway, we were starting to work with entrepreneurs only. And then Stanford came back, and we started doing some big stuff. And so we work with Harvard, not Harvard, sorry, Stanford, Harvard was a former client, Yale, Duke.
John Corcoran 1:01:14
And what are you doing for these universities?
Jason Friedman 1:01:18
You’re helping to, primarily helping them with what, raise money for their, their under their endowments, and fund to improve the experience for the donors.
John Corcoran 1:01:26
Then,
Jason Friedman 1:01:29
yeah, and really tell their stories in a more captivating, compelling way that makes donors want to give. That was when we worked with Stanford, Stanford’s probably like our biggest and best client of all time, I’m actually doing a project with them tomorrow. Ironically, even though we still kind of don’t do that, we don’t really work with big institutions anymore. But we still do some stuff with Stanford. And really, they opened up two, a $2 billion hospital in 2019. And they were getting a lot of backlash from the community about opening this hospital there. They were talking like, it’s the Taj Mahal, and it’s too expensive, and it’s not fair and blah, blah, blah. And they needed to change the conversation, but they wanted to, like, bring people through it. And so we organized an experiential set of tours that brought 40,000 people through this hospital in 10, over the course of 10 days, that changed the conversation and made it a huge win. You know, instead of them coming in through the front door, we brought them in through the back door, we literally brought them in through the where the ambulances drop people off and told the story of a trauma patient that’s coming in, and why this is the only place you’d want to be, and how thoughtfully it was designed with the patient care and the patient experience in mind. And we took them on the journey of this trauma patient coming in, through the ER going all the way through ICU surgery, patient rooms, you know, and everywhere in between. And they really got to feel like oh my gosh, thank God, this is my hospital. And that was what we wanted them to say. And that’s what they were saying. The Taj Mahal.
John Corcoran 1:03:09
So it what are the common challenges, and we’re recording this in 2024, beginning of 2024, we have aI on the scene is a very different world from 2008. When did you sell your baby? What are some of the challenges that you’re seeing businesses struggle with, especially in this last year of a rather rocky economy? In terms of customer experience, and improving their customer experience? What are they focused on?
Jason Friedman 1:03:34
Yeah, I mean, like the biggest challenge most of us have, you know, it comes down to a couple things like first is differentiation, right? Like with AI and the proliferation of AI, anybody can create, like I could go on, and I could create an entire course of how to help people build a podcast in five minutes, and it would look really good and solid. And I could sell that bet or not that that course is not going to do justice to what you guys do under any circumstances, it wouldn’t. But people can go out there and do it tomorrow, they can go out and they can build a course on what I do tomorrow. And they’ll get some good stuff, they won’t have the great stuff. And they won’t have the relationship and the knowledge and the years of experience. And that uniqueness is what I like to think of as your fingerprint, what makes it uniquely yours that you would have, and people are starving for relationships and support more than ever before. And so I think I know, I’ve been saying this for nearly 30 years. It’s like, experience is the most important thing you can think about in your business. And it’s more and more true. It’s like, if you’re not creating an amazing experience for your customers or helping them have an amazing experience. You’re not going to be here tomorrow.
You’re just not. And we’ve seen it time and time again. You’ve seen some of the best companies in the world go out of business that had major fans like where’s Blockbuster Video, how many people used to spend all their time going to Blockbuster and renting a movie? They didn’t keep up with the Joneses. And now it’s Netflix and beyond Netflix. There’s 4 billion other streaming services now. To, you know, what experience are you creating for people that will really last? And are you innovating as you go and not just setting it and forgetting it and hoping that you rest on your laurels, that it’s going to be enough? Doesn’t work, we need to change with it. You know, experience is not something you do. Experience is the result of all the things you do. It’s something that your customers are having. And they’re having an experience, whether you do it by design or not. Right. And so what we like to do, John is we like to help people really get clear on what are, what is the big the big set of results they want, what’s going to make them rave about how great your experience was, what’s going to make them renew their services with you what’s going to make them return to buy more products, and what’s going to make them recruit other people to come and join you in your journey on your business. And there’s an easy formula. It’s not, it’s not easy, I shouldn’t say it’s a simple formula. But it takes some work, right? And we help people learn what that formula is, we call it the connected customer formula, and how they put it into their business.
And it’s that journey that people are going on that needs to be turned into a pathway, a frictionless, very momentum induced pathway that literally pulls people through that journey towards those results. And if we spent half as much energy on the people that said yes to us, as we do on marketing to strangers, and we created amazing products, amazing services that had people really loving what they just experienced, and loving the results that they got, that becomes the world’s best marketing. That means that when you put $1 out in Zuckerberg’s pocket for a Facebook ad, you know that that’s going to compound because you know that they’re gonna come in, they’re gonna have a good experience, and they’re going to tell more people. So it makes every dollar that you spend on marketing, much more valuable in.
John Corcoran 1:06:58
How do you gather that feedback? How does each of these customers gather that feedback? And that is, you know, simple like a net promoter score, NPs type of thing, sending out surveys that one on one conversations, what do you advise on that, as far as that’s concerned?
Jason Friedman 1:07:14
Or finding out how it is now, you can do all those things like they’re, they’re not mutually exclusive, right? But at the end of the day, like when you have customers that are literally posting online about you amazing stories, and they’re just referring, and they call it and they say, Do you have a referral program? Like I want to send more people to you? Or how can I invite my friend to come to this too, or whatever, like, you’ll start to see it when you’re doing it? Well. It’ll show up in spades. You know, it’s like, if you look at, like, when you go to buy a product on Amazon, right, you look at the reviews, if people had a really great experience with your product, they’re giving you stars of five stars, four stars, and they’re telling you why. And if they hate it, they’re giving you stars, there’s not a lot in the middle, right? Yeah. So you’re gonna see, they’re really great. They’re really bad. Like, what are people saying? Like, do you have a book, maybe free in your case?
Like there’s somebody who wrote a book on how to create your best podcast, you look through the reviews? And what are they saying is not good? And like, more of the things that people are complaining about in your business that helps eliminate those friction points, right? It’s, you have to be engaged with your customers if you want them to engage with you. Right. So it’s a great line. Important, but like, that’s asking a lot of people like why should they spend their time filling out a survey? Right? What are other ways that you and I’m not saying that you don’t love surveys are great, but what do they get? If they fill out the survey? Why should they know what’s in it for me? Why should I care has to be something that goes through your mind when you ask a customer to do anything? Right? Because it’s taking time, right? And we want we we the whole reason that a business like rise exists is you want people to be as lonely as to be able to buy back their time. So they can focus on the podcast content, not all the logistics and the other bullshit that makes it work, right? And so they have to feel that value. And if you’re now asking them to fill out another survey, or do something else, right, friction, help me write what, like, I hired you to do a great job. Like, I don’t want to have to be surveyed out the wazoo, but find ways to do it where they can win prizes, or, you know, we’d have some meetings with them, where you just ask them some questions and get that feedback and that data in a less off putting kind of way?
John Corcoran 1:09:25
How do we know? It seems frequently I go through some experience being a customer and I see something I’m like, how could they possibly just fill out this information a second ago. Now they’re asking me to do it again. And so a little annoyance. My wife is always like, what’s wrong with you? Like just do it, whatever. But I’m like, Why did they do this? But the problem is, a lot of times actually, you can tell me if this is true or not. I think business owners are removed from it or they fail to see it. How can we as a business owner, come through with fresh eyes and see the challenges of the friction that we’ve erected. erected and we often don’t even realize it exists in our business.
Jason Friedman 1:10:02
It’s a great question like, What first thing I’d say is buy my program, right, come and do it. But in all seriousness, you have to walk the customer journey through their shoes with their lens on, right, you have to shop your experience, like and really go through it as a customer. And you have to look at that journey that they’re going through through their eyes and their perspective. And it’s not, it’s not second nature to do that, right? It takes work to actually go through as your customer would go through. So you’ve got to really take a step back and say, Okay, how do I get into character right to go into my theater days, right? It’s like, how does Matthew McConaughey know how to play that actor that that character, so when he’s on stage, you believe that he’s like this emaciated cancer patient or whatever, like you have to, he has to know how they would move? What are they thinking, what’s going on, so that it’s believable, you need to do the same thing, you need to get into the character and get into the role of your customer.
And you have different avatars, you have different customers. So you have to figure out who those are, and then really figure out what’s going on for them, like what’s going on in their business right now. That’s, that’s even really getting them to do a podcast, and why is it important to them? And in a lot of cases, and I was one of these cases with Jeremy for a little bit. Like, it’s like, I wanted to do it, but I wasn’t committed to it. Right? And so like, it’s frustrating to work with a client who says they want something but isn’t committed to it, right? Like, I was a frustrating client, for sure. You know, and then he got me a, you know, a different way. And we worked through it. But, you know, it’s like, you really have to get them. And like I talked about this, like, it’s being interesting, versus interested, if you’re trying to be interesting. It’s like you’re teaching your showing you’re the dancing bear, and you’re trying to like, draw attention to yourself, and its authority building, whatever, that’s okay. But when you’re really interested in your customers, like, what’s making them tick, how do I help them? What do I need to do? They feel that because you start to articulate what’s going on inside their noodle when we’re put to those things.
And so it’s, it’s so worth going down that call it that rabbit hole of really getting into their character, and really looking at the journey because the same product like your your main podcasting product that you have, it’s going to have some nuances for these different avatars, and you have to be mindful, and that’s where maybe that mass customization piece comes in, it’s like, let’s pull out this thing, because customer a doesn’t want that. But B and C do want it and then this one has to come out and be a flexible module per customer, D and E, you know, and so what we do in our program, you know, we deliver our program three different ways, right? One way is we have a course where you can kind of learn through yourself and then come through some coaching. Another way is we do a three day intensive where you and a couple of your team members come to us. And you’re in a group of like up to 10 total businesses max. And we go through your journey together, you map it, and we take it and we turn it from a journey into a kinetic pathway. And then we give you coaching for a period of time after that to help you implement the stuff. And then for some clients, they just want us to come out and really go deep with them on site, and we bring their whole team in or a good amount of their team.
John Corcoran 1:13:18
And we do that so great that you know, it’s you’re walking the walk by demonstrating we have three different ways you can do it.
Jason Friedman 1:13:24
And every single one of those ways has like this meta teaching moment, right? Like so we are delivering an experience. We’re walking the walk while you’re going through it. So we’ll actually be in like our online course just saying like, Okay, Baba, Baba, bah, here’s how we’re gonna onboard you. Here’s how we do that. And then we stop, we come back with Okay, let’s take a meta moment. What did we just do? And why did we do it this way? So we’re kind of giving you that front stage backstage review. So you’re experiencing what we’re teaching you. And then we’re shining a light on why we did it, why we made those choices and how it’s going to help you. Yeah, that’s great. And then when you come to the intensive in person, it’s you know, it’s more obviously, there’s like a low price or mid price and a highest price, right? But with the intensive when you come there, we’re giving you an amazing experience, we give you the meals and we custom tailor it and we check all your dietary needs. And we have a chef that does their things, we go to some cool restaurants and experiences.
And it’s not just to be, you know, opulent in any kind of way. It’s really to demonstrate that high touch and build relationships and rapport and show how those things go. So you know, even if you don’t do it with us, it doesn’t matter. You need to do it right because whoever has the best experience is going to win. That’s the person who their customers are gonna go tell other people like I see when God forbid someone puts a negative bit of press about you know, one of our customers caught up on the internet right there a negative review. You’ll see all the other customers be like that guy’s crazy. There’s no way that you know they go to you don’t have to comment on it. They will take those people out. They don’t you know, they don’t allow people to do bad stuff on you. And if that’s something that could happen, they’ll say, You know what, we’re sorry that this happened to you, you should contact this person because they will make it right. And they will go to bat that way for a reasonable thing.
John Corcoran 1:15:17
So truly the fans that have rabid fans out there, yeah.
Jason Friedman 1:15:21
Your brand ambassadors, right. Those are the people that love you. And so it’s super cool.
John Corcoran 1:15:27
Yeah, that’s, that’s great, Jason, we’ve gone way over on time, I really appreciate you obliging here. And I really, I rarely go this long. But I mean, this has been a long time coming in. And I love all this wisdom that you’ve had to share. I want to wrap up with my gratitude question. So I’m a big fan of expressing gratitude, especially to those who’ve helped you along the way, especially peers and contemporaries and that sort of thing. Who would you want to shout out?
Jason Friedman 1:15:51
Oh, my gosh, the list is long. The list is long. So first I am my dear friend Drew. I’ve already mentioned a few times, but my partner in crime. He’s amazing. Dan Sullivan, I think I also mentioned was my coach for many, many, many, many years. Still, I think of him as my coach. Obviously, family and friends, but, you know, in a business context, you know, I have a couple mentors that are Napoleon Hill, for example, as a mentor of mine, even though I never met the guy and he’s been dead a long time. Another important mentor. Love I mentioned this on a podcast with your partner in crime. Jeremy, you know, loves chips, Dan Heath and air books Made to Stick the power of moments. They are definitely mentors of mine. BJ Fogg, another amazing mentor of Stanford guys. Yeah. Ben Hardy, another, another amazing, amazing person, Jeremy Weiss, has met a lot of great people through him. We shout out early to Brian Kurtz, who is who introduced me to. to Jeremy.
John Corcoran 1:16:56
Brian’s Great. Yeah, we’re excited to help them launch a podcast.
Jason Friedman 1:17:00
Yeah, That’s awesome. I’m excited about everything that Brian’s doing. Jeff Walker, another big mentor of mine, longtime, big fan. And I’m sure there’s hundreds of others that I’m not naming right now.
John Corcoran 1:17:14
But no, that’s a great list. Jason, thank you so much. Where can people go? I know you’ve got a PDF that you give away, and people can go check out and learn more about you.
Jason Friedman 1:17:23
Yeah, man, I’d I love to give a free gift away. So I’m gonna be a little secretive about it. I’m not going to tell you what it is. Hopefully, it’ll pique everybody’s curiosity, go check. But I will say this, it is one of the absolute best strategic and tactical things that you can do. It’s going to change how you view certain things in your business. And it’s gonna give you actionable tactical things that you can do right now to implement it. You can’t find it on our website, if you just go to our website, you have to go to gift.cx formula.com/rise 25. So that’s gift.cx formula.com/rise25. And they can get it because they spent time with us today, John, and I want to give them a thank you for that. And I promise you this, it will change the way you think. And you will thank me for this. And I want to hear from you. So my email addresses are there. Love for you tells me what you like and what you don’t like because it helps us get better. But I really want to hear how I was able to help you. And for all the things perish in any of our other programs just hit us up at CXformula.com love to talk to you and see if we can help.
John Corcoran 1:18:29
Jason, thank you so much. Thanks, John. Appreciate it.
Chad Franzen 1:18:35
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.