Joey Gilkey | How to Connect with Your Dream 500 Clients

Joey Gilkey is the Founder and CEO of Tribe Outbound, a strategic sales firm specializing in helping companies land high-value clients through outbound sales. He built his career on selling high-value products and services in a non-salesy and ethical way to some of the largest companies in the world and in very competitive industries. Over the years, he noticed that the majority of companies that he dealt with were struggling to tap into their dream market. He founded Tribe Outbound in 2017 as a solution for company sales problems and they have since gone on to become a market leader and has been influential in growing some of the worlds fastest-growing companies.

Joey Gilkey, the Founder and CEO of Tribe Outbound, talks with John Corcoran on this episode of The Smart Business Revolution Podcast where they talk about connecting with your dream 500 clients. Joey explains what account-based selling means, how his business model works, how to build credibility, and his best strategies for increasing retention.

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Here’s a Glimpse of What You’ll Learn:

  • Joey Gilkey’s background and what being in a Christian ministry taught him about sales
  • How the Dream 500 process of activation and expansion after landing a deal leads to more sales 
  • How Joey’s trust transaction model helps build trust in business relationships and land more referrals
  • Can you be good at sales without being likeable?
  • How to establish credibility with clients
  • How to use Linkedin as a landing page and how to create relevant content for users
  • What account-based selling means and how it relates to the Dream 500 concept
  • How much effort and time does it take to go after your dream clients?
  • Joey‘s strategies for increasing retention after closing a deal and delivering results
  • How Joey built his compensation model for Tribe Outbound
  • The people Joey acknowledges for his accomplishments

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

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If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great ROI, great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships, and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing

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Episode Transcript

Intro  0:14  

Welcome to the Revolution, the Smart Business Revolution podcast where we ask today’s most successful entrepreneurs to share the tools and strategies they use to build relationships and connections to grow their revenue. Now, your host for the revolution. John Corcoran.

 

John Corcoran  0:40  

All right. Welcome, everyone. John Corcoran here. I’m the host of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast, where I get to talk with smart CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs of all kinds of different companies and organizations like YPO, EO, Activision Blizzard, Lending tree, OpenTable x and many more. I’m also the co-founder of Rise25, where we help connect the b2b business owners to their ideal prospects and I’m really excited today because I’ve got a legend, a really smart guy here. His name is Joey Gilkey. He’s the CEO and founder of Tribe Outbound. He built his career on selling high value products and services in a non salesy ethical way to some of the largest companies in the world, and in really competitive industries. And over the years, he noticed that the majority of companies that he dealt with were really struggling to tap into their dream market.

And so the company that he founded in 2017 really is a solution for company sales problems. He flips sales around and really emphasizing empathy in the sales process, which we’ll talk about building a high class team of specialists who really focuses on going into particular companies and we’ll talk about account based selling and what that means and going after dream clients that you want to work with, which is a big part of what he does as well, really fascinating stuff. But first, of course, before we get to that this episode is brought to you by Rise25 Media. At Rise25 we help b2b businesses get clients referrals and strategic partnerships with our done for you podcasts and content marketing. You’re listening to one right now. And you’ve probably listened to thought before. Hey, should I do a podcast? While I say absolutely we specialize in helping b2b businesses with high client lifetime value to make a podcast profitable for them. So to learn more, go to rise 45 dot com. And you can learn all about her You can also email us at support at rise25media.com. All right, Joey. So, my business partner Jeremy is a big fan of yours. He’s interviewed you before and I know, he’s interviewed some big people. But after he interviewed you, he was raving he was like a little schoolgirl or something like that. Completely raving about the, you know, the experience of talking to you. And I listened to that episode, and was really blown away as well. You’ve got a lot of different approaches and philosophies around pursuing, like large clients, dream clients, not just one but They’re not just 10, but like 500 of them. So I want to dive into that. But first before we get into that, tell me a little bit about your background where you were born, you’re born a salesman at like three years old, you’re going around the neighborhood selling chocolate bars or whatever you like, as a kid.

 

Joey Gilkey  3:14  

Cool. It’ll first sound like it’s from me on and yes, I’m also a big fan of Jeremy. So maybe it’s a man crush going on. But yeah,

 

man. So growing up, I did not grow up in an entrepreneurial household. My dad was a blue collar worker, he started in Home Depot, still working for Home Depot now 30 years later, and he was working for Home Depot, you know, midnight, graveyard shift in the lumber yard. And now he’s in corporate doing very well for himself. And so I come from a very hardworking family, but not entrepreneurial. I didn’t grow up selling candy on the streets to folks, I didn’t have the entrepreneurial bug necessarily. They got attributes that lead to it in terms of leadership and for me, my whole career, my whole my whole childhood. Growing up was about sports. So for me, I played every sport you can imagine at some point and then through high school, eventually played football and got drafted in the MLB as well. Very low rounds. So it’s not that impressive if you actually know anything about the MLB draft a lot of kids get drafted but never go play. And then I went off to play football in college, actually, at a small division one school called Presbyterian college. But yeah, man, I did not. I didn’t curl up with even the business book, to be honest, my whole life was about sports. And then, in my college years, it became more about ministry like full time Christian ministry, and which in and of itself is entrepreneurial, but I wouldn’t have caught it at the time, but definitely prepared me for the career I’ve now been on.

 

John Corcoran  4:48  

Actually fascinated by that because when I was in college, I was very into politics and I went door to door for people’s Can’t you know, for candidates in causes and things like that. And I’m fascinated by people who’ve done that, you know, whether it’s stored or sales for selling a product or a cause or a political candidate. It’s ultimately selling, right? Mm hmm. It’s

 

Unknown Speaker  5:13  

exactly right. Yeah. I mean, for me, after college, I did go into full time ministry.

 

Joey Gilkey  5:19  

And one thing I learned in full time ministry was if you want to have any sort of living or salary, you have to raise your income. So what they call support raising, and yeah, that taught me how to sell first. So it’s actually it’s funny when I think about it out attribute my sales skills actually to my dad, first and then secondly to being in ministry, raising support, you know, to go on missions to go on, you know, summer projects, leadership projects, and then ultimately to fund my wife and I’s full time ministry at the time.

 

John Corcoran  5:56  

And so who did you approach about that? Was it family members? Was it members of your church? Was it friends?

 

Joey Gilkey  6:03  

Yeah, if you’ve ever heard the term like center of influence CO is like for me it was. It was all about who were my centers of influence. And so it was it started with family, then it with the friends and with the church members. I didn’t grow up in the church, which was interesting. So I actually didn’t become a Christian or go to church until I was about 17 years old. So I really didn’t have a church base, back where I grew up, I pretty much had about one year while in high school, and then went on to college and moved to a different state. And so I didn’t really have a home church. And so for me, it was a lot of centers of influence asking families and then when they would support me, it would then be, you know, who do you know, that would be interested in funding a ministry like this? And so for me, it really was kind of the grassroots of what I would call a, you know, account by selling now. Right, it was, it was one off getting the attention of people, whether it be people I knew or people that were referred, you know the bottom of what we call the trio 500 process, we talk about activation and expansion. So after you land a deal, your process doesn’t stop, right? There’s an activation period and then an expansion of your activation has turned them into a raving fan. They are an ambassador for your brand and what you do, and then expansion is obviously upselling. So asking for more funds at the time, or expanding externally, which is they refer you into more relationships. So, honestly, it’s in business. It’s the most profitable approach to businesses retention, activation and expansion. Everyone gets obsessed about acquisition. But where the real money and where the real profitability comes in is when your clients refer you to your next clients who refer you to your next clients because there is no cost per acquisition there

 

John Corcoran  7:51  

is that hard. Now you serve clients and you help clients to do that? Is that a harder thing to sell to prospective clients and say hey, here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna go to your existing clients and we’re gonna get more money out of them versus the sexy idea. We’re gonna bring in a bunch of new clients.

 

Joey Gilkey  8:09  

Yeah, it is. Well, if you start the relationship that way, yeah, sure. It’s very difficult to be like, yeah, after we do some work I you know, I’m expecting you to drop me three new referrals and stuff like that like that? Yes, of course, that’s hard. But the way that I look at it, I call it more of like a trust transaction model. And something that we kind of build internally or we talk about internally and when you’re when you’re going through like traditional acquisition, right when you’re doing sales, the first important and and think of it like stair stepping right so as you go up a stair level more trust is built at the bottom the first there’s what we call attention so before you can ever make a sale you have to get their attention. Secondly, and this there is usually skipped over its likability, right? It’s building relationships built on that likeability and the reason that people skip over that is because they want to get to the next step pretty quickly, which is what we call credibility, right? So a relationship built on credibility. Transactions can’t happen without credibility. So that that is true. That’s why people want to jump there and say, here’s what we can do for you. Here’s a case study case study case study. Those are important. But my argument is, if you have likability first one, it’s going to strengthen the clothes. You can’t close a deal on likability alone. But you’re going to get so many more at bats to present credibility. If you have likability first, so close attention, likability credibility, and then what we call a trust transaction. So a transaction that’s based on trust. And then the next part is retention, expansion, etc. And so if you continue to climb the trust trend, or the trust ladder, if you will, or you take each stair step at a time, when you have both likability and credibility and you’re able to service them well, asking for referrals, a supernatural it’s not even up to ask for it. Just kind of happens. And so, yes, if you start the relationship that way, and you don’t have likability or credibility, and you haven’t delivered yet, it’s challenging to come in and say, Yep, let’s just go straight for referrals. You know, just expect that I’m gonna ask you here shortly.

 

John Corcoran  10:13  

Right, right. It’s funny because I’m a big believer in that what you just said is that you have to have likability, you have to have some kind of bond and rapport with people that you’re going to sell to. So personally, I believe in that. I was preparing for another interview, which is coming up in a couple of weeks with Oren klaff klaff, who’s the author of flip the script. Jeremy also interviewed him recently. And in his recent book, he kind of argues that likeability is not always a good thing, and I misstating it but basically what he said is that salespeople sometimes have multiple different personas. And so at different points in the sales conversation, the beginning they’re trying to be likable. In the end, they’re like being hard and trying to pressure them and other times they’re trying to establish their credibility and what damages this sales process that it almost seems gets a phrenic like the salesperson has different personalities. And so he’s almost arguing against the importance of building that bond and rapport. What are your thoughts on that piece? Do you think that you can be good at sales without being likable?

 

Joey Gilkey  11:17  

Yes, yeah, I think the answer is yes. I think if you’ve ever read the book, The Challenger sale I don’t think that you have to be likable. necessarily to get the deal I think it helps a lot. I think it also helps with retention and though my entire world My business is everything revolved around acquisition that’s people obsess about as acquisition. I argue that retention is so much more important. Some money in the door is important but keeping money in the door is even more valuable. And so I do think that it’s challenging to create that type of relationship where they are referring if you don’t have likability, so I don’t disagree with or in that way. I do believe you can have success by being a challenger sale. Personal challenger sales really just someone who has the ability to be super valuable by re educating the buyer. Right? Like you have to educate the buyer on how to buy because oftentimes how they, how they bought in the past is incorrect or it’s led to poor results and so you have to educate them on why they’re buying the way they buy. That’s an effective model. I would just argue that a layer on top of that is adding likability and so I’ll disagree with them. You can be successful, I would just know what’s been successful for me and for us, and that is by introducing likability. Now, what I said earlier is a transaction is not going to happen based on a relationship built on likeability alone, right? Like, no one’s going to shoot me 250 K, to do what we do, simply because they like me, right? Like it’s a big, it’s a big undertaking. And so, but what my argument is, is if I have likability I’m able to have more at bats to prove my credibility, which will then ultimately increase my conversion and increase how many deals I’m able to close.

 

John Corcoran  13:01  

So let’s talk about the credibility piece. What are some of the building blocks of that? How do you establish your credibility?

 

Joey Gilkey  13:07  

Yeah, I think that the challenger sale is a component of that being able to educate the buyer, but I think a layer behind that would be we talk a lot at tribe and Joe yoking company about dream clients, right and the dream market. really understanding, putting yourself in the shoes of or what we call empathy driven sales, putting yourself in the seat or the shoes of the buyer to understand who they are, allows you to really understand or want to increase likability. Right? So there’s that part, then the credibility part of that is when you’re able to essentially be, I like to think of it as when you approach a prospect or it’ll lead and you’re able to essentially come across as if you are reading a page from their quote unquote fictional diary. When you can do that, that establishes credibility when you can express authority and knowledge in a particular space that is interesting to them, and or is relevant to them. That’s when credibility starts coming in. And yes, case studies help facilitate that. And data and all these things, do help with credibility. But I think really being from a relational standpoint, being able to pinpoint, hey, this is what I know you’re going through, I know that these pain points exist, I know this, because these are the people I serve, you are categorically someone who I have historically served. So when that’s the case, you’re able to essentially read from their diary and say, I know you, I know, this is your pain point. I know this is what you’re walking through. And this is what keeps you up at night. And these are the things that essentially are keeping in bottlenecking your business from growing. So therefore, let’s talk about that. And then that’s when I started re-educating the buyer on how You’ve been buying this way for so long. What if we, what if we thought about it this way? And then we start presenting some actual authority and credibility through our solution. Right? So that’s that would be where I would say how you can build credibility the most is by deploying empathy in a sales relationship.

 

John Corcoran  15:18  

Yeah, that’s interesting. I think a lot of people when they think of credibility, they think of, you know, diploma where you went to school, or awards or recognition, that kind of thing, rather than thinking about just a deeper greater understanding of the person that I’m talking to. Andre point.

 

Joey Gilkey  15:36  

You know, one thing real quick. So if you think about LinkedIn, everybody just jumps on the LinkedIn train. I’ve been there for a couple of years now. But one thing about LinkedIn that we have found, and this goes for website landing pages, too, is what do you think converts better? The page where you talk about your accomplishments as a business, your milestones when your business was started? Everything about you or a page that says, hey, I know you, I know what you’re going through, right? Because a lot of LinkedIn specifically people utilize LinkedIn as a resume, which is really just a mimimi type of situation. But when you convert your LinkedIn into more of a landing page, that’s empathy driven that toxin it addresses who you want to target. That’s going to convert far better than, hey, I went to this school, I’ve done this achievement, I’ve created this much revenue, because you haven’t addressed their problems.

 

John Corcoran  16:31  

Yeah, and I totally agree with you. And by the way, I’m looking at your LinkedIn account right now and you practice what you preach. But it’s actually a great case study because your title is I help agency owners remove themselves from sales and build out their sales operation which is explaining exactly what you do and who for but then you say, created 1.3 billion in deals in three years. agency sales, training, consulting, I’m not your guru. I’m a practitioner, which I love that piece too, because it’s known as India. You know, you’re actually doing it and rolling up your sleeves. So break that down for us. Why did you create it that way?

 

Joey Gilkey  17:07  

Yeah. So the framework that I use is really a three part framework. And this goes for website coffee. This goes for sales letters, this goes for your LinkedIn profile, your Facebook. So the framework that I use is, who do you serve? What is the end result of working with you? And how do you get them there in that order? Right. So oftentimes, we talk about how we get them there. First, we talk about the features of what we do, but they don’t care about that stuff yet, until they know that they’re in the right place. So that’s why we have who we serve? So for me, in this newer season of life for me, I have Tribe Outbound, which is done for you. We do dream 500 outreach account based selling for companies we keep that very, very manageable and small. The other side of the company, which is Joe yoking company is working specifically with digital agencies because digital agencies have a systemic issue when it comes to building out Sales operations and removing agency owners from sales so that they can get past that invisible ceiling. So I want agency owners when they come to my profile. And I have a whole strategy on how I drop people there. But when an agency owner comes to my profile, I want them to know, first and foremost, they’re in the right place. Who do I hurt? Who do I help? I help agency owners. Secondly, where do they want to get to? Well, I know that they want to be removed from sales and become the CEO. So that’s where I take them, how do I do it? I helped them build out an internal sustainable sales operation. So in that order, and then after that, I can talk about myself a little bit, which is credibility. Yes, we’ve generated 1.3 billion in three years. That’s cool. That’s a big number. But they don’t care about that until they know they’re in the right place. I can help them and I can get them where they want to go.

 

John Corcoran  18:49  

Right? It’s out of context. If you just see the 1.3 billion versus like, that’s what is true. What does this person do that sort of thing? That’s a great way of breaking it down. What? So you mentioned LinkedIn, you have a strategy for getting people there. Is that true? Talk a little bit about that, and what 10 has done for you?

 

Joey Gilkey  19:10  

Yeah, so the cool thing about LinkedIn is, they want to drive traffic to your profile. That’s why content exists. That’s why that’s showing you who’s been to your profile. If you have Sales Navigator, obviously, that’s an added benefit there. You can see who’s been the last 90 days. It’s why they even give you a notification that says, hey, john smith has visited your profile, see all views, right? Like they want that to be a piece of LinkedIn. And so what I do with LinkedIn is obviously, I don’t treat my profile like a resume. I treat it like a landing page. I have a framework that I work through, that drives people to an eventual call to action. How I get them there, right is the other piece of it. So when they get there, I want them to convert, but how do I get them there first. Obviously content is super important. posting content that is organic, and native to LinkedIn is a platform, you have to understand LinkedIn is a business, right? It’s not just a platform that I used to enjoy freely, and they just keep it open for the sake of having a cool network, like it is a business that drives billions of dollars a year. And how do they do that? Well, they need to make sure that they have a good user experience. Why? Because they make their money by serving ads, the longer people are on their platform, the more ads they can serve, the more ads they can see more money they can make. And so if you know that that’s every platform, not just LinkedIn, when you know that, you know that a big No, no. There’s an algorithm, right? When you make a post, there’s an algorithm that says we should give this post more reach, or we shouldn’t, we should shut it down. And the algorithm is based on LinkedIn motivation, right? If they want to push something, if they want to keep you on the platform, the algorithm is created in such a way that it’s meant to do that. So just an easy tip when you are posting organically on LinkedIn do not have links that link out of Lincoln’s platform, if you do that, they do not like that. You’re sending people to a competitor, right? If you have a YouTube link, you’re sending it to YouTube. Why is that a competitor? Well, because LinkedIn is driving video engagement right now. So you know that you need to play into their algorithm. So look at what they are? What are they playing into? The second thing is what I call network density. So as I’ve mentioned, agency owners are a huge market for me. That’s where most of my brand is, it’s where most people that follow me. I have a LinkedIn network of I don’t know, probably 11,000 or so I would say 8000, maybe 7000 of those are agency owners or agency leadership. When you think about the LinkedIn network or LinkedIn algorithm, again, it’s all about user experience and people, people keeping people on the platform. So when you post content, if your content is valuable, it’s going to get further reach. Why? Because it’s going to keep people on the platform. They’re going to keep coming back to the platform to get valuable information. Well, the way that works is when you put out a post, they’re going to give a very small percentage of your network that you have connected with your first level connections, they’re going to serve your content to them first, right, and if it performs well likes, comments, impressions, shares, if it performs well, in a certain time period, they will then open up the gates to the rest of your network and then to your second level network. If it doesn’t perform well, they’re gonna start shutting it down, because it’s a bad user experience. So in order to ensure that your content is relevant, if I’m creating content for agencies, and my network is only filled with 20% agencies, well, the sample size that LinkedIn is going to put my content in front of probably has 80% of people who that content is irrelevant for, it’s going to have low engagement, and therefore they’re not going to continue to give it reach. So if I have a predominant industry or network that is dense to who I want to serve and who I talk to, I’m going to get engagement really fast, and then they’re going to open up and I’m gonna keep an average 15,000 views per post right now, because I have a dense network. And what happens is when you produce valuable content, it gets big reach that drives people to your profile, your profile then serves as a landing page to convert them into a call or a download or whatever it might be.

 

John Corcoran  23:17  

Let’s talk a little bit about I want to ask you about the idea of the dream 500 and account based selling and why that is first what does that mean account based selling? Because I do a lot of sales myself for our company and I’m not sure even though he’s thrown around a lot, so tell me what how you define that and then how it relates to the dream 500 concept that you believe in that you perfect?

 

Joey Gilkey  23:44  

Yep, let’s do it. Okay, so, account based selling first is when you think about there’s really two methodologies to selling. There’s what we call spam your Tam which stands for Tam stands for total addressable market. So when you’re selling you have a total addressable market, a market total that you are able to address, okay, they can potentially buy from you. What you offer is maybe somewhat relevant to them in some way, shape or form at varying price points. Well, Spaniard Tam is what we would call like a one to many sales outreach. Right. So that’s, we have a massive list 1000 2000 5000 20,000. And we introduce technology and automation to scale our outreach, so that we can hit more people because we’re going for a volume of outreach with a low conversion, right. So like after 1000 people, we convert 1%, that’s 10 leads or 10 deals, whatever you want to, you know, however you want to do the math. Well count base selling is upside down, right. So think of how to spam your tan as a really wide top of funnel, right? So there’s 15,000 people you throw on the top of the funnel, you work them through your sales process that is largely driven by technology and volume and automation, in a very small bottom of the funnel 1% or less, usually less. account based selling is flipping that upside down. Right? So with spam your tan, you’re kind of going after the masses and hoping that your dream clients fall at the bottom, which they rarely do with account based selling, you flip it upside down and you start with the end in mind, who is it that you specifically? What accounts Do you really want to serve and work with? And then you create a strategy, and a playbook that addresses each account as if it’s its own campaign, right? So spam your Tam, you might have 15,000, you might segment that 15,000 to a list of 1000 and create one campaign per segment. So 15 campaigns for 15,000. In an account based approach, you are treating each account called target. You want to go after the target you are treating each account as if it’s its own market. So it gets its own specific campaign and even a level down. There’s different key decision makers involved in that account, each one of those accounts or key decision makers also gets a campaign. So it’s a very hard to scale, but very high conversion approach to selling. So instead of going after 1000, converting 1% we want to go after 500 or 100 and convert 10% or 20%. Right? So it’s a different, you just would explain it spam, your Tam is high volume, low conversion, account based is low volume, high conversion.

 

John Corcoran  26:31  

So there’s a couple of pieces there. One is getting really crystal clear about who your 500 or your 100 would be knowing who are the right people who are not the right people for you. And then there’s a that sounds like a lot of effort, a lot of work goes into pursuing that particular client, making sure that you make a good impression, getting their attention all the different pieces you were talking about. That’s right.

 

Joey Gilkey  26:53  

Yeah. So with the account based selling, it doesn’t have to take more time, right. We only have so much time in the day. for selling or selling, it’s just a matter of your volume of outreach is much lower. But it’s far more thoughtful. So I can afford to spend all my time going after 50 accounts. If I know that over time, I’m going to convert 30% of those. Mm hmm. Right like that’s, that’s worth my time. It’s far more thoughtful. It also has an impact like we talked about earlier, I care a lot about retention. When you have a very thoughtful, empathy driven, methodical approach to selling and developing a relationship that’s built on attention, likability, credibility, then that retention is going to naturally happen because that trust has been built before the transaction happened. And we’ve continued to build on that. So when it comes to account based selling, it doesn’t scale super well, right. There’s tools and technologies and ways to structure your team that does allow you to scale it, but I would argue that not all things that can scale need to scale. spam your Tam, you have to scale that outreach because it’s a volume If I want more leads, I need to up my volume. If I want more deals I need to up my volume. Whereas in campus selling, if I want more deals, I need to be more thoughtful, I need to be more engaging, I need to be more specific to this one person. And you get the same exact results. But the effects of spam your Tam type of approach is you get you do have brand reputation that gets hurt. When you do an automated approach or technology of an approach. You can’t be personal, you make a lot more mistakes. Secondly, you exhaust your market really fast. If I go after 50 accounts in a year, I can keep doing this approach for a decade and never run out of people, right? If I go after 500 people a month, and therefore I go after 6000 or 10,000 people a year I’m gonna run out of a market eventually. And I’ve already damaged my brand and every other market and have a low conversion. So what do I do? right and so that’s those are the big differences between I would argue you don’t have to scale it. You can and we can talk about how to do that. But

 

John Corcoran  29:06  

and as far as your approach goes, so it’s your kind of medium agnostic, right? Like you. We’ve talked about LinkedIn, but you’re using email, you’re using different approaches to send them. Are you sending gifts? What is it everything in a bowl is okay,

 

Joey Gilkey  29:21  

everything above. So the way that we look at it is we have zero romantic feelings about any one tactic. So tactics come and go, what is the most valuable thing you can do when applying an account based selling approach is insight, right? Because what we believe is insight creates strategy. Strategy informs what tactics you use. So if you go the other way, which is a spam your Tam type of approach, we need this tactic to work. We have to do this tactic. I’ve built my business on LinkedIn. You know, driving leads through LinkedIn. Well, what happens when LinkedIn gets saturated? What happens when LinkedIn shuts down your account because you’re using a lot of automation Tools right then you’re up a creek? You have no idea how to acquire new leads to try something new. But what we believe is insights will tell you what strategy and what mediums will be platforms. And then you can actually go pick which tactics I want to use for those mediums and platforms. Yeah, it’s a completely different approach and everything from LinkedIn to direct mail to cold calling and emailing and IP based ads and Facebook advertising funnels and gifts. Of course doing giftology like John Ruhlin talks about really is all components and tactics. But in a silo tactics don’t work. If that’s not where you’re your dream clients are spending their time or where they’re going to convert. So if you can’t know that without the insights,

 

John Corcoran  30:46  

yeah, of course, the challenge for you from a business perspective or for many businesses, understanding how those different types of strategies work individually enough to use them and use them effectively and not make major mistakes and that sort of thing, which is where you come in? I want to ask you before we run low on time, about the retention piece, and I kind of have two questions around that. One is, what are some of your strategies around retention, increasing retention, I got the idea that it starts from the very beginning from the get go building a good reputation. But then I’m also curious from a business perspective for you for the business that you run, which is called Tribe Outbound. How you build that into your model so that you are incentivized to perform with your clientele, and make that part of the way that you’re compensated or judged by the clients. But that’s the second question. The first question is just around retention and some of your strategies around it.

 

Joey Gilkey  31:41  

Yeah, so if you haven’t read Joey Coleman’s book, the first 100 days, I think that’s an incredible way to create a strategy around what happens after the deal is done. So whenever they sign the contract, and they pay you, oftentimes people just say, well, let’s get to work. And then what you’re basing your retention on his entire results. Now results obviously will always be the biggest driver. If you’re not developing or if you’re not driving results, people aren’t gonna stick around. But secondly, is after you’re delivering results, people still don’t stick around because of one or two reasons. One, you don’t think you have likability. So that’s an easy one. You don’t do a good job of communicating your value. That’s honestly and I work with a lot of agencies, they don’t know how to communicate their value, even if they’re driving results. attributing growth and revenue and value to their efforts is incredibly important. Yet, most agencies have an average retention of about 18 months with their clients, which is absurd. It’s a cycle that will keep you from growing. And they’ll keep your profit margins lower. If you don’t have the ability to extend from 18 months to three, four or five, six years with the client. In a lot of this because you do not know how to communicate your value. You don’t know how to do it. Proper reporting, and those types of things, right. So I think it goes to results. Just one being able to drive results to be able to communicate those results and three, creating likeability and value right? Joey Coleman talks about the first 100 days. There are stages after a purchase that a buyer goes through this buyer’s remorse. There’s elation so there’s excitement. So what do you do during that excitement period to keep that going? There’s buyer’s remorse. So what do you do when, you know after about a month, and you’ve been heads down doing work trying to create results, they had this buyer’s remorse like I paid all this money. Is this going to work? How do you address that before they even get there? A lot of that comes down to and I hate that I beat this word to death, but it comes down to being empathetic. Knowing your customer just like you try to know your prospects so you can get the deal done. Know your customer so you can keep them around. Yeah,

 

John Corcoran  33:53  

yeah. And then so the second part of it was just around. Since you are a company that is compensated For helping other companies helping agencies to get clients, how do you, since that’s important to you? How did you build that, from the business perspective, build that into the way that you’re judged or compensated?

 

Unknown Speaker  34:12  

That’s great. I think for me, we eat our own dog food, if you will.

 

Joey Gilkey  34:20  

So for us when what we do for clients is an account based dream 500 approach to going after their dream market. We get zeroed in on who we serve. And so if we’re going to tell our clients to do that, and we’re going to deliver a service around that we need to be able to do that ourselves. That kind of goes back to your question about knowing all the different avenues and tactical things that you can do. We are our own lab rat, right? So we test everything first with us before we try to the client, because we don’t wanna waste their dollars. And so I think we’re able to keep people around, provide value, drive results because of empathy at the end. obvious buzzword. We know our clients super well, they know us super well. We have an incredibly transparent process, we show them exactly what we’re doing and who we’re doing it with the results, whether they be good or bad. If they’re bad, we own them and say why they’re bad and what we’re gonna do to fix it, if they’re good, we’ll say why they’re good, and how we’re going to continue to optimize and grow on that. But in terms of like a performance based model, we are five to 10 times more expensive than any competitor, period, I would be hard pressed to believe there’s anyone out there that charges what we charge. And I think a lot of that comes from knowing who we serve and being religious or militaristic about who we serve and saying no to everybody else. Because my belief is that if you can provide enough value for the right person, they will pay and they will find the money to pay your fees. And so I think a lot of folks get trapped in this. I don’t want to turn business away because I’m saying no to money? I would argue that and say, well, or what if you just got really zeroed in and who you are, who you worked with and who you serve well, and then focus on serving them really well. And then you quadruple, five x 10. x your pricing, because you’re just that much more valuable to them. So I don’t know if that answered your question, but that’s kind of how we work.

 

John Corcoran  36:22  

Got it? Got it. Cool. Well, I think we’re running short on time. So wrap things up. But the question I always ask, which is, let’s pretend we’re in an awards banquet, much like the Oscars, or the Emmys. And Joey, you’re receiving an award for lifetime achievement for everything you’ve done up until this point. And you know, what we want to know is do you think in addition to family, friends, who are the mentors, who are the friends or the business partners, who are the peers, or the colleagues who are the clients, who would you?

 

Joey Gilkey  36:47  

Well, I’ll get to the mentors and stuff first, but honestly, and this is not meant to be on a pedestal of spirituality. But I do think that you have to have a North Star Hawaii, you know, for me, it’s my faith and the Lord you No my Christian faith. For me, it frees me to be a better business person. When I realized that there’s a bigger reason behind what I do, I can be less desperate in the sale, I could be a better owner, I can be a better vendor to a client, if I have a bigger purpose behind why So first and foremost is the Lord. Secondly, mentors I have a ton. I would say that one of the oeg mentors for me, originally, especially in the digital agency space was Jason Swank, who’s now a good friend of mine, you know, started as a mentor and became a good friend. Vinnie Fisher, who runs fully accountable is a big mentor for me, both from a faith perspective, but also just being an incredibly good business person. Outside of that, I would say Jordan Rayner is the author “Called to Create” in his newest book as Master of One” I’m his mastermind as well as he’s just a good friend and a mentor for me and helps show Me on how do I integrate my faith which is super important to me and my work and so Jordan Raina would be another one. Natalie I have so many Roland Frazier’s become recently a mentor to me just in helping understand how to do business smarter.

 

Unknown Speaker  38:20  

Man

 

Joey Gilkey  38:21  

Who else could I probably think about it? Honestly, there’s people I don’t even know that are mentors to me, people who are authors and folks that are really ministered to me from a business perspective that have made me better than who I am. You know, Bob Burg, who wrote the go givers is super powerful for me. And that book as I referenced that book, weekly, probably. But outside of that, there’s a lot of unsung heroes in my life here locally. My father in law. You know, if I’m not allowed to talk about my dad who definitely is a hero of mine,

 

Unknown Speaker  38:53  

there’s nothing to not allow and I just yeah,

 

Unknown Speaker  38:54  

it’s just you want you

 

Unknown Speaker  38:56  

include that. That’s all people mentioned. That’s right. That’s right. So

 

Joey Gilkey  39:00  

So yeah, a lot of unsung heroes locally, that kind of play the background, but they’ve been a big support for me and really pushed me in my career.

 

John Corcoran  39:10  

Interestingly, the only one of all the people you mentioned who I haven’t interviewed on my podcast is Jordan Rainer. So I’ll have to interview and show you all the other ones are vinnies great. Jason swings, great role. And Bob Berg. They’re all great guys and great mentors. Well, I will be sure to introduce you to Jordan. Thank you, Joey. Where can people go to learn more about you?

 

Joey Gilkey  39:29  

Yeah, so LinkedIn, obviously. So linkedin.com forward slash, four slash Joe yoky is an easy one. And then we haven’t launched yet, but it’ll hopefully by the time this podcast is launched. JoeyGilkey.com is kind of our newest venture but then obviously Tribe Outbound is a pretty easy one to check things out.

 

John Corcoran  39:50  

Perfect. Joe, you didn’t fail to disappoint you left out you lived up to the standards of what Jeremy had said. And he held They didn’t meet the standards very high. So thanks so much for the time and really appreciate the wisdom.

 

Unknown Speaker  40:04  

Appreciate that man. grateful to be here.

 

Outro  40:06  

Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com and while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the Revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution podcast.