Roland Ligtenberg: 12:11
Yeah. I mean, look, it used to be really hard to know how to fix your own plumbing, but today you can go to YouTube. You can build it all yourself. You can do it all yourself. You know, all of those pieces.
But do you? And so the difference between can and do is still pretty large. And then when it comes to building a software that runs 100% of your business and all the financial back end, that’s just not something that you can go code yourself over the weekend and look as as humans, we just like we are now able to specialize where we can deliver our highest and best good and get some money and then go spend it on other things. And so why would you go waste your time or spend your time doing something that you’re not maybe the best at? So the death of software, I think, is not the same when it comes to, you know, our market or really a lot of other markets, because there’s still a big opportunity cost that you have to undertake to get there.
So even if the cost goes down to zero and the time goes down to zero, it’s going to be a little while because it doesn’t just magically work out of the box. So, you know, for us, we’ve got a lot of amazing data at Housecall Pro, over 100 million jobs in our database, and AI really makes use of that data. And if you were to independently go build something in your own silo, you’d have such a small data source, you wouldn’t have the best AI. So it’d be like hiring an apprentice all over again. If you could hire a master plumber or an apprentice and they cost exactly the same, which one would you want?
You know.
John Corcoran: 13:45
Let’s talk about some of the ways you are using AI. I understand you are adding AI team members who are helping your customers to be able to do things faster. So talk a little bit about that.
Roland Ligtenberg: 13:58
So, you know, when we take a look at our customer base, they’re typically between 0 to $10 million a year businesses. And so the hardest thing of any home service business is to find good people to hire. And so you need people that can both do the job in the field, at the customers homes, in the crawl space, and attics. But you also need people in the back office to dispatch the jobs, you know, do accounting, payroll commissions, filling out rebates, all that, other things that come with running a home service business. And we believe that, you know, you’ve got two options to grow, either just hire more people or for the things that maybe are really well suited for AI, which are jobs like yours and mine, which are sitting down.
Those are things that we can help our pros with. So we have different AI team members that are pros can on board or hire into their business. Most of them are just incorporated into the software. It doesn’t cost anything. Some things cost a little bit, but essentially, you know, we have the ability for someone that can answer the phone on behalf of our pros.
They do that. So that way they don’t have to sit on their own personal cell phones all day. You know, if they miss that call, they miss a job. That’s a big deal. There’s no reason they should have to miss any calls.
So our CSA helps them with that. We have an accountant AI that keeps track of the bills you need to pay and the money that’s due to you. You know, when it is at the end of the day and then you have dinner and then you have to go back to work doing invoicing and collections and all those things. As a small business owner, you should be able to take that off your plate so we can take that off your plate. There’s all these differences now we have an AI analyst as well.
So if you’re trying to figure out how much commission I should pay John for all the water heaters he sold, you know, in the month of December, maybe not a lot of water heaters this part of the season. Maybe. Maybe heaters and.
John Corcoran: 15:37
Mine just broke a month ago.
Roland Ligtenberg: 15:38
So there you go. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, that’s much easier to ask. You know, your AI is asking that question, then you build a pivot table on a data source and go like, you know, source by employee John month, time period, December keyword, you know, water heater, etc.. So anyways, we offer all these different AI team members that are pros can embed into their business that help augment and make them better, faster, stronger, leaner, more efficient and allows them to handle more demand, which is ultimately our number one goal, which is how do we champion our process success?
How do we get more jobs, and how do we make them more capable to do more jobs, take all the jobs away that they don’t need to be doing or shouldn’t be doing anyways?
John Corcoran: 16:19
Yeah. I want to ask you about it. As a, as a business, you know, there’s been a lot of especially software businesses that have added AI features into their existing, you know, core product. And some have decided that, okay, this will be an upgrade and others have decided, oh, we’re just going to fold this into an existing product. Maybe they have a vision of increasing the price at some point in the future, but certainly that must have been a conversation that you had to have.
What did you think about that? You know, do we make this, you know, an additional add on? Do we make it part of the core product?
Roland Ligtenberg: 16:57
Sure. So I think that’s an evolving discussion that’s always changing. And the cost basis of AI continues to decrease. But also the capability continues to increase. So you know, do you price based on outcome by action by cost cost?
Plus you know, there’s all these different kinds of considerations that come into place. At the end of the day. You know, our business is based upon can we help our customers grow and do we grow with that pro. And so we do. You know, we’re both assassins and a fintech business.
So as our customers grow and they run payments through us we’re able to capture some of that growth. And so when we think about AI in general, there are some things that will augment a human or replace a human. And there’s really big opex, you know, that we can replace. Maybe that’s a place where we can charge a little bit or maybe not, you know. Is this what they pay for outside accountants?
Oh, yeah, they do. They pay to get their taxes done. Oh, yeah. Some do, some don’t. You know, so I think with each one you have to individually take a look at it and see what kind of value you bring to the table.
And then is this long term a job that a human should or should not be doing. So can you price it against human opex or not? Maybe long term vision isn’t because a human maybe shouldn’t be answering a phone to do intake. Or maybe they should, you know? So I think that’s where it’s an evolving discussion.
At the end of the day, you always have to provide a lot more value than you cost. Yeah, we just make sure we’re always affordable, delivering the value and making sure we champion our process success. And that’s kind of the secret sauce per se.
John Corcoran: 18:27
And how has it changed your projections as far as your own internal hiring for people who work for the company.
Roland Ligtenberg: 18:35
In terms of AI usage or.
John Corcoran: 18:38
Yeah, there’s a lot of companies that have, you know, that have larger companies that have made a lot of layoffs, blaming it on AI. There are others that have said that we’re not hiring as fast as we were planning to previously, because AI teammates are able to handle many of the tasks that we would have had to hire for. So has that changed your projections as far as you know, how fast you or or slowly you know what pace you’ll be hiring people?
Roland Ligtenberg: 19:06
Look, I think if you’re a growing business, you got a great product. You should grow as fast as you possibly can to get in as many possible uses as possible. So I think when it comes to that, you know, are you not able to grow as fast and therefore you don’t need more people? Those people can always find other things. If it’s something that is very easy to be done by AI to do in the company, if you hire good people.
So it just becomes more of a capital and, you know, resource allocation problem than like if you’re a growing company, then then if you’re then if you’re not. So I think, you know, at Housecall Pro, when we take a look at, you know, all the different types of roles that we have, there’s folks that that really are the front line that are communicating with customers, and there’s others that are building the product or doing BDD or doing strides or those things. I think AI affects those things differently. I think at the end of the day, anyone that has a sitting job, you know, is a prime target to be upgraded by someone that is using AI. And so I think there’s still a huge creative element to do all of this.
And I think without that, you know, you’re not able to deliver something that has exceptional value. You can always deliver some value without it, but I think it’s a necessary component. So anyways, I think long term you just have to think about what’s important to the business. Which of the roles can you either retrain, reskill or use in a higher best use where there’s a more of a premium on creativity rather than something that’s just copy paste, copy paste, copy paste. You should have been doing that all along.
Anyways, I just made it faster.
John Corcoran: 20:35
I want to ask you if you’ve been with the company for 12 years, 13 years, or something like that. Now since its very beginning, you’re still with the company. I don’t know how many employees you have now, but according to LinkedIn, it looks like a couple of thousand. How have you managed to remain involved and engaged and interested in the business, as obviously the challenge is and the focus of your role has changed. I’m sure so dramatically from the very early days trying to get product market fit to today, a much larger entity.
You know, you don’t know the names of everyone you’re working with, you know, how do you remain engaged and interested in being? There’s many, many entrepreneurs who sometimes lose interest at that point.
Roland Ligtenberg: 21:20
I think when people lose interest, it just wasn’t their passion or their mission wasn’t big enough to fit all their dreams in the first place. That’s all. And so I think at Housecall Pro, when you get the ability to help real people, you know, change their lives for the better, it’s something that is really easy to become addicted to, and you can stay with it for life. If your mission is not large enough or you’re just selling the next best, I don’t know, insurance product or something like that. You know, like something that’s much harder to rally passion around.
Yeah. You’re going to struggle. You know, you’re going to struggle. Some people just build something because they’re looking to, you know, fix their own problem. But at a certain point, if they don’t have that problem anymore, they are still passionate about fixing other people’s problems, you know.
So I think it’s just more of a question of, do you have a business that is set on a mission that you believe in, and do you feel you’re bringing that good to the world? And so I think 12 years in, I can still easily say, you know, all the work that I put into it benefits, you know, humanity in some small sense. But definitely the lives of our blue collar folks that, you know, it’s not necessarily a background that I came from, but I think that is definitely a part of the world I align greatly with because it’s a worthwhile pursuit and I think we need more of them. And so if there’s any way that I can do that and help, help them become successful, that feels good.
John Corcoran: 22:44
Almost at my last question. But before I get to that, I have to ask you about something on your LinkedIn profile. It says that you are unembarrassing, which I’ve never seen on my LinkedIn profile before. So my question for you is tell me a story of something that happened to you that would have thoroughly embarrassed someone else that didn’t bother you at all?
Roland Ligtenberg: 23:04
Yeah, sure. I think early stage business is a lot easier to come up with stories. I think in the early days of House called Pro, one thing we did was I dressed up in this really tight, really tight yellow spandex pants, green top, little green hat and drove around as Buddy the Elf delivering Christmas trees. You know, for consumers that were booking me through the app. If you Google, if you go to Google or YouTube and you type in House elf, you can see me in that outfit.
And so I think a lot of people are like, wait, what? You worked at a huge tech company, made what kind of money? And now you’re delivering Christmas trees dressed up like a Christmas elf? I think a lot of people are like, I’d be embarrassed to do that. So I think, you know a trait, and I love to see this trait in others that I hire as well, which is, you know, if you’re doing something you believe in, who cares what others think about you?
And embarrassment, you know, is something you should even be feeling because that’s someone else judging or thinking about you, when in reality no one really is or no one really cares. They’re always thinking about themselves. So I think that’s a trait you should have as a founder. So when I’m doing angel investment, when I’m advising, it’s definitely something I look for. And it’s important to have because if you don’t, there’s plenty of other people that aren’t willing to do that thing.
And that’s the reason they aren’t the entrepreneur and you are the entrepreneur. So anyways, yeah, yeah, it’s funny that you picked that out, but yeah, I picked that word very deliberately because I believe in it greatly. It’s something I look at in my hiring rubric when I’m talking to people, investing people.
John Corcoran: 24:28
Whether people, whether people that you’re hiring or people you’re investing in, whether they can get easily embarrassed.
Roland Ligtenberg: 24:33
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
John Corcoran: 24:35
Yeah. I want to ask you also about Mike Rowe, famous for Dirty Jobs. The TV show came in and spoke for you guys recently, and I always find it interesting when a company grows to the stage where they can get people that, you know, you’ve seen on TV for years, you know, someone who’s who’s also really well regarded, I imagine, amongst your customers base. Right? They probably love the guy.
What was that like working with him on that project?
Roland Ligtenberg: 25:07
That was great. Mike is amazing. He’s an amazing speaker. He’s very thoughtful. He’s also really engaging.
And like you said, our pros love him and everything he stands for. And, you know, I think not enough people in this world are willing to do the dirty work. And so our pros are definitely getting dirty all the time and maybe not valued enough for what it is. I think it’s coming to roost a little bit now, given what AI is capable of doing. But I’d say in general, you know, even before micro, we were able to get amazing people on our podcast, you know, Mark Cuban, Simon Sinek, Barbara Corcoran, Alan.
Mulally. Just so. So. Jocko Willink. You know, like so many other great people.
And if they believe in your mission, the same that you do, they want to join. And a lot of people ask me, well, how do you get that next big, great guest? Well, just ask your previous guest. Hey, is there anyone else you can introduce me to that you think shares the same passion as you? And all of a sudden, their Rolodex is your Rolodex.
So I think, you know, you don’t ever get what you don’t ask. And it kind of ties back a little bit into being unbearable. Like, ask for something. The worst that could be said is no. Yeah.
But then you don’t ever have to think about it. Well, man, if only I had asked that. So that’s my advice to any entrepreneur out there. But, you know, shoot your shot. You may be surprised at what you get.
John Corcoran: 26:26
Yep, yep. Yeah, I know someone who would advise young entrepreneurs to just go into a coffee shop and ask for a 10% discount just to work on that muscle, that embarrassing muscle. Right. Because what’s going to happen? Worst thing to happen.
You know, maybe they give you a 10% discount. Maybe they say, no, sorry, I can’t do that right. You know, but it kind of flexes that muscle. Last question, and I didn’t. I have to tell all the listeners that I didn’t prepare you with this. Usually I remember to prepare people beforehand and I didn’t in your case.
So you can be forgiven if you punt on it. But I love to ask people about mentors and peers and contemporaries that you’re grateful to, and give guests a little bit of space at the end here to give a shout out to someone like that. It could be a co-founder, it could be another entrepreneur, it could be a key investor, it could have been a, you know, key customer who agreed to try your product in the early days. Is anyone in particular that comes to mind that has been there in the journey for you, that has helped you, has been there supporting you even when others weren’t or didn’t believe in you?
Roland Ligtenberg: 27:32
Oh, that one’s easy. That’s my wife. So, you know, I don’t think you can get into this business of entrepreneurship without a very strong partnership. And so, you know, there’s just no other mentor, no other person that any of this would be possible without her support all along the way. She’s the one that convinced me to join Qualcomm.
She’s the one that convinced me to quit Qualcomm. She’s the one that convinced me to do Housecall Pro. She’s the one that was there to do all the things. So without that support, I would have never been where I am today. So that’s the easiest shout out to do in the world.
You didn’t even prepare me for that one.
John Corcoran: 28:02
And she’s the one who organized the nicely colored and organized row of books behind your head there, too.
Roland Ligtenberg: 28:12
That’s right, that’s right. She does so many things way better than me that I just couldn’t even conceive of. But yeah, so she’s definitely the artist behind everything you see here. But more importantly, you know, the mother of our children. And the only way that I can work as hard as I do is because she’s able to handle everything, you know, at home and with our family and everything else.
So, you know, I think that’s a key piece to have locked in if you’re heading down this road as an entrepreneur, have a very supportive and thoughtful partner because if not, you have two things working against you, which is relationships and a business that’s very tough to build and scale for sure.
John Corcoran: 28:52
For sure, Roland, this has been great. Where can people go to learn more about you and learn more about Housecall Pro?
Roland Ligtenberg: 28:57
Sure, yeah. If you’re curious, if you want to talk to me, I put my cell phone number out there. (858) 215-1512. Most people don’t text the ones that do shoot their shots and I’m able to connect them. So if you happen to be a pro and you’re listening and you like Housecall Pro or you want a demo, you want to learn more, shoot me a text, go to housecallpro.com or you can go to YouTube and search Housecall elf if you want to see what it means to be an embarrassment. Thanks for having me on the show, John.
John Corcoran: 29:23
Thanks. Really.
Outro: 29:26
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.