Cesar Quintero 3:05
Yeah, you know, so I even went to university there. So I studied industrial engineering, and I started working with Procter and Gamble, as you said. So I had the highest paying job. It was an amazing corporate, you know, it was a global entity for Latin America. So I was at the corporate headquarters there you know, Argentina, Chile, Mexico. I was traveling all over, it was great. Um, but yeah, the economy started crumbling. And that’s where I realized 24 is like, I don’t think I have a future here. So I went from, you know, my earning went down fivefold in one day, because the believer back then fell. And so I was making like $300 a month. I think it was
John Corcoran 3:49
at that. Like, once the bottom fell out.
Cesar Quintero 3:51
Yeah. Once it Yeah, you know, and then it’s like, I don’t think this is sustainable. You know, like, my, I would travel to Argentina and two nights of hotels was more than my monthly salary. So I’m like, this isn’t working well. So. So that’s when I, you know, and that’s when I told my girlfriend at the time. So I’m my high school sweetheart. I told her, you know what, let’s just get married, moved to Miami start a business all at the same time. And why not? Because there’s no, there’s no risk at this age. Right. So that’s what I did. And I started in a food industry, which, you know, of course, nobody, nobody, nobody thinks about everything. Well, everybody needs to eat. So I started a started fit to go, which is a few of we cooked and delivered healthy meals to people in their office. And
John Corcoran 4:36
there’s so much complexity in that, you know, I remember a lot of diversity, you know, your country may at rest in peace, which was a big, you know, food delivery business. And I remember reading an interview with the founder, and he said, essentially, you’re building three businesses at once. It’s like a web-based business, a distribution business and a food business. Exactly, a similar type of thing for you.
Cesar Quintero 4:59
Yeah. I remember I remember starting the business up, I was trying to see how do I outsource delivery? How do I outsource the kitchen? How do I like I was trying to see how to put all of these elements were so fundamental to the core of the business. And mind you, this is 17 years ago. So there’s this is pre Facebook, pre overeats, pre all of that. So, um, yeah, we developed the centralized kitchen, of course, a permitting alone. And that was, you know, when they said that took six months, it took a year and a half. So my wife wasn’t very happy that we were engaged for two years, because I was not going to get married until I started the business started making money. Um, so yeah, you know, it’s all the issues that most entrepreneurs go through. So I think I was just a victim of eternal optimism, not calculating correctly, the times in the money and money needed to get started. And then also, I went into a business that I needed to educate my market. So back, then I need to go door to door, give out free meals and convince people it was convenient to have your meals delivered every day. Right. So so it was talking about a little ahead of its time, it was like I needed to, I needed to preach and make sure that people change behaviors.
John Corcoran 6:09
So that was tough hard for any business. super hard.
Cesar Quintero 6:12
Yeah. And in our business, and what the country said, you know, it’s a business with low margins, because it’s food. And logistics are hard as I don’t know if I can swear here or not. But yeah,
Unknown Speaker 6:22
you can, though,
Cesar Quintero 6:24
are really hard to sit right. So yeah, you got logistics. And it’s hard and low margin. Right?
John Corcoran 6:30
It’s a very tough business. And if something goes wrong with the product, someone comes eats it, they could die, right? If something. Alright, so there’s kind of high consequences. So you but you would never let you power through you get it up to a million and a half in revenue, but you feel like that’s the limit of your potential. Why did you feel like you couldn’t break through at that point? That seems like a that’s a no, a very small number of businesses get yet ever reached that point? Yeah, I
Cesar Quintero 6:54
know. I think I started growing, the market started growing with it, too. So that’s when people started. It was two trends, right? It was healthy and delivery. So two trends got us and we started growing. I had like 27 employees 1.5 million back in the time, but, um, but I was doing everything I was running like a chicken without a head. I was delivering meals. I was subbing for the cook that didn’t show up. I was answering phones, you know, at night, if somebody that. So I was always, I guess I didn’t know how to lead I started a business that I became enslaved to right. And I think that’s when I learned about eo accelerator and the entrepreneurs organization. And that was my first step of really understanding that I needed a decentralized me. Right, I needed a right. I needed to that being an entrepreneur, because I think it was also part of my childhood upbringing. You know, being in Venezuela, my dad being an entrepreneur, my mom being in corporate and pan-am and all that. What did you
John Corcoran 7:54
What did your dad do?
Cesar Quintero 7:55
He had a water treatment, chemical and equipment. He hasn’t still quit medical equipment and, and stuff in Venezuela.
In Venezuela. Now. They’re in Panama, Costa Rica. They’re all over Central America. They have to go. But
John Corcoran 8:10
so how did that prepare you to become an entrepreneur yourself?
Cesar Quintero 8:14
So yeah, so I saw and that’s part of what I was trying to say is that, you know, my parents were really hard workers. And I think they come from the era of work hard, not smart, kind of thing. And that’s what I grew up in. Like I worked since I was seven, I would be the guy passing you know, going through the fax machine and stamping faxed, and those are all the invoices going out. Right. And I was all summer just funding invoices. And
John Corcoran 8:38
younger listeners right now are saying I don’t understand what he’s talking about.
Cesar Quintero 8:44
So So yeah, exactly. So um, you know, that’s, that’s the world I came from. So in my mind, as an entrepreneur, I need to be working 100 hours a week if I’m not working in an office that I’m not putting enough effort into my company. And that’s when I realized I remember you know, pivotal books of course. Rich Dad, Poor Dad, 4-Hour Work Week. When I read 4-Hour Work Week, that was a mind shift. Right? For me. It was like, wait, that’d be Yeah. What do you like I can really cut down my time and be more efficient.
John Corcoran 9:16
For many people. Yeah.
Cesar Quintero 9:17
Yeah. So that really shifted my mindset. Also, you know, the entrepreneurs, organization, all of this. And that’s when I realized, you know, what, I need to learn how to work smarter, not harder,
John Corcoran 9:28
right? Or some of those key decisions that you made. You have got 30 people working for you at this point, but what did you have do?
Cesar Quintero 9:35
So I, there were, I would say there were two or I would say there were two pivotal things that happened to me. The first one is you mentioned it in the intro, the 2012 realization and I got hit with a class action lawsuit. So I was around 1.4 1.5 when I got hit with that class action lawsuit and the reason was, I was a fifth company that I was a victim to Girl and an attorney that they were going company by company. And I had contractors who are drivers who had their equipment. So it was Uber before over kind of thing. So I had a fleet of 13 drivers, and they, you know, it was, it was a lawsuit that was on behalf of drivers. Yeah, I was a candidate. And it was only three new drivers, all of my drivers banded with us. Um, but at the end, you know, two of the old drivers or three of the old drivers joined. So in the end, it was, it was a baseless lawsuit, it got dismissed by the judge towards the end, of course, they didn’t file federal, they went local. But, um, what that meant is that I needed to fight it all the way through and, and it was my ego. It was just I needed to prove that I was right. Didn’t drain your savings. Yeah. And she, and she said, she said, Hey, I backward for the two companies before she said that to my face. And she still worked in my company, I couldn’t let her go. Because then it would be a retribution.
John Corcoran 11:02
Right. So this is working in your business as well.
Cesar Quintero 11:04
So working in my business, she put flyers for my competitors, in my bags to my customers, and I could not fire her because yeah, it was very tricky. Um, I took it very personally, I remember that year was one of the worst years of my life, you know, my daughter was born. That’s, that’s a high. But then at the same time, I was hit with this. My health started deteriorating, I developed this immune immunological, gout, like it’s a weird form of gout. And I remember was black friday into 2012. And everybody was out shopping. And I was like, $0, in my bank account, zero in my business zero in my personal account, and I was wheelchair bound, because I couldn’t walk. I was like, totally depressed. And also in a healthy food business, as you can imagine, after Thanksgiving, nobody wants to eat right now. Yeah. So it’s like, like, it was just bad, bad. And that’s when I realized, you know, what, something needs to change, something needs to change here. And that’s when I met Fran Actually, I met Fran on that February, February 2013. And, and she did a y discovery for me. So she was, you know, you know, her history with Simon Sinek. And how she helped him and case study and the whole thing. So she did a workshop for us about, you know, unlocking our purpose and understanding are true, why. And that’s when I realized, you know, what I would have been wrong all along. I’ve been seven years in this business, that I was focusing on the wrong things, I was focusing on my service on my product on proving the system, I’m proving that I’m a good leader, proving that I’m a good entrepreneur. And what I really was passionate about is about empowering those around me so that they can live the life they want to live, right. So my Why is to empower others, so that they can live a life by design. And, and that’s something that I’ve carried through since that time, because I realized that I shifted my focus, and I stopped worrying about my business. And I started, I started to worry more about my people. And that’s where my, my shift completely focused on the people around me, my managers, and that’s where I learned about EOS, which is a banner behind me, and traction and the book. And I started, you know, being more wrong role, understanding that I wasn’t the leader that had to point out where we needed to go. And that’s when I started saying, you know, what, this is not about me, it’s about us. And they put that into evidence when, when they stood up, and they said, You know what, this is bullshit, and we’re gonna fight this, and we’re gonna make this work. And this is not because I felt defeated, I felt completely defeated. I’m like, all these years of hard work, are going down the drain because of my ego. And, and, and me wanting to prove that I was right. And my team is like, you know, what, we’ll band together, there’s nothing that unites a team more than a mission. And we got through it, man, the next year was our best year yet in profit, like, like they banded and my managers were like the best. And I realized that I was the wrong type of leader. And when I, when I started understanding that my focus was on them and not on the product, not on the customer, not on my service, it pivoted our business. And we went from 1.5 to 3.2, within like, three years, because I was the source of issues in my business. And I just, I just didn’t face it, you know?
John Corcoran 14:26
Yeah. And that’s what EOS is really about is helping get people, direct people, into the right role that they should be in. Right. Yeah.
Cesar Quintero 14:34
So we’re just because you start a company doesn’t mean you have every role in it. Right.
John Corcoran 14:38
Right. Looking back on it. Is there anything what, if anything, would you have done differently leading up to before the class action lawsuit?
Cesar Quintero 14:47
Yeah, so first thing, first thing for anyone listening to this podcast is EPLI, that’s an employee professional liability insurance. That’s something it’s an insurance. That’s pretty cheap. It’s not that expensive. It covers wage and hour and all these things, especially with any, you know, sexual harassment and all of these things. And my lawsuit could have been so much cheaper at the end. At the end, there’s good news on both fronts. The first was she only got 500 bucks. That’s all. That’s all I wanted her attorney on the other hand, you know, being attorneys fees. Yeah, her attorney got all the
John Corcoran 15:20
data for the amount of dollar the attorneys can get. Yeah,
Cesar Quintero 15:23
but I wanted to prove a point. Yeah, um, but you know, what, it was the worst and best thing that ever happened to me, because I think that that experience taught me a lot about me and myself and my place, my place as a leader and in the world.
John Corcoran 15:42
About what was it like when you first read traction, or when you learned about EOS? Or did you have? Did you have an implementer, who came in and worked with your business?
Cesar Quintero 15:52
So you know, what happened? I through Entrepreneurs’ Organization, I had read Rockefeller habits scaling up, I was a part of the accelerator program. So I knew these concepts. Well, I was, I always had all, you know, as most business owners, I, we were implementing, and reading things here and there. Yeah. And I think my mistake is what I see most entrepreneurs out there do is that they’re trying to implement them themselves, versus having someone in your team, do it and create consistency, because there’s no one that wants to be in a meeting less than me, right. There’s no one that wants to follow a process than me. So let’s have somebody else do that. And, you know, I had enough experience that I’m like, you know, what, I’m gonna implement this myself. So I went to Basecamp, I did this and for about eight months, I was self implementing. And that’s when I realized, you know, this, this doesn’t work very well. So I asked my friend, Todd Smart in Chicago, he’s like, Hey, can you help me, you know, implement a bit? And, and, you know, within three months, he had done all I did and in a year, right, so
John Corcoran 16:52
so that was enough, I just take us through, take us through what he does, what he did that how he changed the structure of your business, you know, meeting rhythm,
Cesar Quintero 17:00
I think the first thing that changes is that when you are the owner of the business, and you and so I was the owner of my business, and I was implementing in my own company, I had too much of a voice. So I’m facilitating I’m teaching, I’m trying to get people on board, and I’m trying to hold people accountable. And it was too much like their voices weren’t being heard. When I brought a third party in. When somebody else says a and I’ve been saying an all my life and everybody’s like, no, but it’s using a but somebody else says A, then we believe him, right? It’s just bringing another person, you know, into the fold. That’s, that’s a third party. They have no vested interest, no personal interest, you know, and people would listen, and people would understand and, and there are no personality issues, because even if I’m implemented, even if I was doing it perfectly to the tee, in my own business, there are feelings involved. Right. So I think that was the main difference. It wasn’t so much on what I did, or what he did. It was more about the perception of the team and the and the commitment of the team also paying, you know, paying, you know, makes a difference as well right
John Corcoran 18:07
now,
Cesar Quintero 18:08
your brains are so ready to come in. And right, everybody better get in line, you know,
John Corcoran 18:12
right, right. But now you’ve implemented this for other for 40 plus companies.
Cesar Quintero 18:17
Yeah, so actually the story is great. I fit to go kept growing and what after us after two years, my leadership team was running my business. And I had, I was like, going to events and socials and things that I was networking. I started coaching on the side to restaurants that wanted to deliver. So I started sassing you know, I did a SAS on my software. And then this was before Ober eats. So there’s a pattern here that went over eats came out, I’m like, fuck it. I’m not competing with Uber Eats, right?
John Corcoran 18:50
Yeah. So when you saw that, you’re like, Okay, this is good. Okay,
Cesar Quintero 18:53
this is this is enough. So but that’s what started me in coaching because I started coaching different restaurants on how to be more efficient, how to deliver how to do all these things, how to create a recurring business model within the restaurant world. But restaurant, restaurants were very mom and pop and it was really hard to coach because they’re typically not that business sophisticated. So that’s when I started, you know, what, let me teach accelerator. So I started teaching an accelerator group, I started teaching different things. And that’s when I developed this. I’m like, wow, I really love coaching and implementing and do these things. And it aligns with my y. Right? It’s empowering people around me. Yeah. So it’s like, perfect. And that’s why I’m Todd said, You know what, you should be an EOS implementer. You did it in your company, you’re a good success. And then Chris Jones in Canada also said, you know, it’s like, you know, he also showed me the ropes a little bit. And that’s, that’s when I started implementing so I started implementing four years ago. Um, no,
John Corcoran 19:52
yeah, four years ago. Well, and so that that’s around the time you sell your business, right.
Cesar Quintero 19:56
Yeah. So, so Exactly. So when I can prove Then I can coach and have my business at the same time, I decided to sell 50% of my business. Because in my mind, I was still wanting to be an entrepreneur, I didn’t want to be a consultant. Right. So I still want to have my business on the side. But I did
John Corcoran 20:12
some hang ups in your mind about what this role new role was?
Cesar Quintero 20:17
Yeah, I never want to be called a consultant, you know, because I hate consultants. It’s like being a salesperson, right? And not liking sales people. So and thank God EOS implementation is not consulting, because we just teach them right, facilitate, but, but for me, it was a lot around giving the entrepreneur hat out. So I sold 50%, my company sold pretty well.
John Corcoran 20:42
And you sold to two people on your leadership team.
Cesar Quintero 20:44
So the first time I sold to my shop in 2017.
John Corcoran 20:49
And how did that could break that down for me? Did you approach this person did you put shopping around on the market,
Cesar Quintero 20:57
it was interesting, I was thinking about selling half my company and I had hired the chef, he came because I was tired of not having people at the executive level, you know, at the level that could take you to the next step. So I hired this chef that came from the best exclusive country clubs and all this. And he worked for us for a year we were trying to expand to different cities. And a story around this business is that whenever you expand, it’s really hard. So every business that has expanded in food and the delivery side has not been successful. So we were not being successful and expanding to Orlando and Tampa. And that’s what he said, You know what? This looks like a great business. I love you as a leader, I love the business. I love the culture, why don’t I come in 50%. And I’m like, great. So there was a perfect way because I was trying to get out of the operational side of the business. And then when he offered that, and we weren’t even thinking about it, but then it’s like, okay, now you become operational partner, and I’m more of the outside, you know, financial partner. So that’s the way it worked. And then we’re going through the process last year as well. And then COVID hit. And that’s when I said you know what, I’ve been growing my practice, I wanted to start a firm, I wanted to do different things. And so I sold it to my operations partner, and appraiser, sorry, my operations manager. So the chef and I got together and we said, You know what, she would be perfect for this. She had been with a company five years she came to she also came from Venezuela 15 $100 in her pocket, and now she owns a multi million dollar business, which is, which is amazing. You know, yeah, it’s talking about empowering people around you. So they can live the life they want to live so so it just aligned with my purpose it aligned with what he needed. Because I was no longer there. I was no, you know, so he needed somebody to help them to be part of that. So Francis came in and she bought the the the other 50%.
John Corcoran 22:54
And when you sold it to your chef, were there any? How did it change the dynamic? Did it? Did anyone? You know, any hard feelings? Was it weird when he explained it to everyone? Or was it seamless?
Cesar Quintero 23:07
He was already working inside? You know, there’s always a transitional period of Josh is it looks at this, or here’s this podcast, there was something that he thought EOS was the Cesar way, you know, so he’s like, no, let me do some things to Joshua. Right. You want to do one, two ones and do different things. And, and, you know, he started dismantling EOS Little by little, something that was working so well up to that point. But he wanted, you know, he’s enough wanted to have is that he wanted to have his voice. Um, so my managers kind of like way, way, way, way. We’re not changing this, this works. So he learned how to come back to it and then find different things on where to make a stab, but he’s been amazing and the business is so much better. Because you know what, there’s nothing worse than a business where its owners or founders have no passion for it anymore. And that that’s what happened to me after I got burned out. And after I was I found another passion. I was doing different things. I did a disservice to my company, because, you know, it just plateaued. It just plateaued because I wasn’t passionate about it. I wasn’t pushing it through anymore. Um, so you know, and I should have sold it all three years ago. I should have sold it all but but but my head trash was had me caught on. Right.
John Corcoran 24:24
Would you have shopped it around in retrospect?
Cesar Quintero 24:27
Yeah, probably. Although, you know, the two people who own it today are so much better for it. And I think it’ll it aligns to my purpose, but I, you know, I don’t. I don’t reminisce so everything that happens happens for a reason. And we all learn from the process. So it’s always easy when you look 2020 you know, it’s right. 2020 hindsight. I’m very blessed on where I am and the outcome. So
John Corcoran 24:51
yeah, so so we’re at the end of or the end of January 2021. You mentioned COVID, which has been happening over the last year or so what was Like for various different clients of yours, give me some examples of some who are harder hit by it.
Cesar Quintero 25:07
Yeah, so the most hardest hit, of course, are service companies that are hand to hand. So a physical therapy company, a swim school a, you know, so so people who are more in the trenches, but I’ll tell you and I’m actually going to send a survey because I just finished annual season and everybody like I would say, 85% 90% of them have really outperformed what they thought they would do last year, even pre COVID. Right, their goals from last year. And I think, I think that’s one of the things I love about the EOS system and traction is that it’s done for war time periods, right, this is it’s agile, it’s every week, you’re pivoting, you’re trying to get to the quarter, every quarter, you’re pivoting, you’re trying to get to the year, every year, you’re pivoting you’re trying to get to a three year so every it’s a very agile process. And it’s a war room style meeting every week that you have that you just pivot. And I’ve been I ran 26 different manuals right now this was a crazy annual SEO is that it was
John Corcoran 26:05
my last is that a whole day or half-day? It’s full two days. So
Cesar Quintero 26:10
I’ve been doing this again, mid November to now. Yeah, wow, a lot. Today was my last one. And but to be honest, I I’m surprised, not surprised. But I can say what I love about this process is I can see the impact it has in business. Now. I would say 100% of all the businesses I work with retained all their employees, and they made it work. And they surpassed expectations. And they pivoted and they made it work. So you know, it’s just a testament of the system and how it works, right? And how it everybody’s empowered to really pivot and make it work.
John Corcoran 26:48
That’s great. So now you’ve got the new business. So talk a little bit about what you’re excited about now as we head into 2021 Oh, yes, getting past COVID.
Cesar Quintero 26:58
So of course, I sell my business in August, the final 50%. So I I finally pass a pass of the page and, and then I say you know what I’m starting to think so I started a firm, called, it’s based on The Profit Recipe. So it’s an EOS firm, here in South Florida. We’re the only firm that has me certified in South Florida. And I have five different partners. And we’re all implementers we’re all immigrants. We’re all entrepreneur x entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs. So we all know what it means we’ve all implemented EOS within our companies. So it’s a great team. I went from product blue collar to service white collar. It’s like, grass is greener,
John Corcoran 27:41
that ends that hey, you’re worse. You’re not working with restaurants now then.
Cesar Quintero 27:44
No, I’m not. No, no, no. So I’m an EOS implementing I’ve been in EOS implementing for four years. So I haven’t worked with restaurants in four years. Yeah, well, I one client, I have one client that’s a chain of restaurants. But
John Corcoran 27:53
and how does that how does your experience your background building? You know, a restaurant business? How do you, you know, talk to a b2b business owner and relate to them?
Cesar Quintero 28:04
Yeah, so most of my businesses actually what I love about EOS implementation is that we are not the expert in their business. Right? They are that’s why I don’t consider myself a consultant. I don’t diagnose. I don’t I don’t prescribe. I’m I’m an expert in the EOS model and how it works and how to make it work. The people in the room are the experts in their business are the experts on how to get it ahead. Right. So what happens is most businesses have people, right, and people are the issue in every company, vendors, contractors, clients, employees, people are the issue, the main issue, 82% of people are the issue of all problems. So this is a system that helps you, you know, create alignment and vision. It helps you create accountability and traction. And it helps you align a healthy team right in the health and team. So what I teach is the principal’s a system, and I get the hell out of there. Right. So that’s what I love about EOS is I just teach a system I go in teach the system, they get it, they do it. They’re the experts and then they carry with it I trained someone within the company to take this on. And that way they don’t need me anymore. So that’s what I love about EOS and implementation is that it’s not coach dependent. I can teach you a model and get out of there.
John Corcoran 29:17
That’s great. Well, Cesar, this has been great. We’re running a little short on time. So I’m gonna wrap up with the two questions I was asked which is sir, first just big fan. I’m big fan of being grateful expressing gratitude. So if you look around at other peers of yours, which you could interpret broadly could be others who you know, through eo or EOS or other facilitators, implementers, that sort of thing. Who do you admire? Who do you respect who’s doing similar types of work doing good work these days?
Cesar Quintero 29:45
Oh, I would have to say Scott Fritz would be number one who is my accelerator trainer. He’s the one who really made me click. He’s down in Las Vegas. I would say Fran Biderman-Gross, of course. allowing me to empower me with My purpose and my voice, Govind Johansson from Ontario, Canada. He made me believe in myself and that I could do this because of course, we always I’m like, why would I be an implementer? Nobody would hire me. So he’s the one who made me face that fear. And then Todd smart, and Chris Jones are my mentors through the EOS journey. Of course, that’s been amazing. And then, you know, let’s
John Corcoran 30:22
pretend we’re at an awards banquet, much like the Oscars or the Emmys, you’re receiving Award for Lifetime Achievement for everything you’ve done up, up until this point. And if we look backward in time further back in time, you know, were there any mentors? Are there any coaches? Are there any investors, any people that you would acknowledge from your childhood or early days of entrepreneurship, you would acknowledge in your remarks?
Cesar Quintero 30:47
there would have to be, it’s gonna be sound corny, but it would have to be my mom and dad, my dad, first of all, for being such a visionary and seeing the world for what it was, the life I grew up in was completely different than most of my friends in Venezuela because he was a true entrepreneur and wanted to put me and I was an entrepreneur since I was 14. Right? So he put me my feet on the fire, and let me learn and then my mom for, for integrity, consistency, doing the right thing, you know, and really calling out bullshit when I’m treading that line of, you know, the Latin world of you know, is this right? Or is this wrong? So my mom was like, No, this is the right way of doing things, and you would do the right thing. So, um, I would definitely say, kind of corny, but mom and dad.
John Corcoran 31:35
That’s all right. All right. theprofitrecipe.com is the website anywhere else, LinkedIn anywhere else that people should go to connect with you, Cesar?
Cesar Quintero 31:42
Yeah, it’s just, it’s under Cesar Quintero. So at Cesar E Quintero LinkedIn or Facebook, yeah.
John Corcoran 31:48
Excellent. All right. Thanks so much.
Unknown Speaker 31:50
Thanks for having me, John. This was fun.
Intro 31:52
Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.