Tucker Max | From the NY Times Best-Selling List to Book Publishing Trailblazer

John Corcoran 11:32

So fairings in six months. One family, okay,

Tucker Max 11:36

family, that is what this is like, that’s what I’m gonna try to paint like a super rosy hero picture of me, because God knows I was doing plenty of things to deserve to get fired. Right. And it’s not like I was making this conscious moral stand. It was much more of just like, I needed to go do my own thing.

John Corcoran 11:55

What are you doing? Were you waiting tables, managing restaurants? Are you doing those managings? Yeah, yeah. And I waited tables in college. I think everyone should,

Tucker Max 12:05

at some point. 100% Yeah.

John Corcoran 12:06

You learn a lot.

Tucker Max 12:08

I was very good at it. I’ll tell you what the problem was. So my dad, he had a pretty big, you know, like, I don’t know, five, six restaurants. And so he had kind of a management layer. And they were all stupid, and lazy and thieves. And I figured it out quickly. Yeah, and you know, I was 25 Yeah. And my name was on the door. The family. The restaurants were called Max’s Grill. Again, it’s my dad. So I figured that I was right. And I’m family. So clearly, my dad’s gonna back me. And so I basically like, told them, you’re lazy and stupid. And you’re stealing and I’m going to get you fired. Overwhelmed to grow this company. I didn’t. I didn’t care about being overwhelmed with it. Because I was right. Hi, my name is on the door. So clearly, I’m gonna win, right? Oh, no, that’s not how office politics works. My dad is a Among his many flaws. He’s very, very narcissistic. And there’s a reason that he had so it wasn’t an accident. He had stupid, lazy, thieving people working for him, because they were very good at playing to his ego. No, I was not. And they won the internal political battle. So daddy fired me.

John Corcoran 13:23

At what point? Did you pursue the writing path? Then? Did you say Alright, I’m gonna make it go in writing?

Tucker Max 13:28

No. So the whole time I was writing, like, you read? Yes, I was writing when I was working for my dad, like miserable Florida when I was at the law firm, miserable there, whatever. And so it wasn’t until after I got fired by my dad from the family business that my from one of my friends, he’s actually an editor at RealClearPolitics. Now. He’s like a senior editor, one of the big guys there. He emailed me or called me and he’s like, Look, Tucker. I know, you’re not so good at law. business, you know, like, but the thing you’re really good at man is writing. And I like writing, what are you talking about? He’s like, dude, these emails you’re sending are the funniest things I have ever read in my life. And I’m like, well, well, yeah. Well, I’m gonna be a writer. Like, I’m some sort of bitch. And he’s like, well, if you haven’t seen what’s going on, pitcher, not is the thing you’re good at. And you’ve been kicked out, like everything else. And I was like, Oh, shit, maybe he’s right. And so long, long story short, I tried to get published, you know, because I at that point, especially like, Oh, well, if you’re going to be if writers get published, that’s what you have to do. You have to get picked. I didn’t even think about it as a thing. I just thought about it and I got rejected by every single publishing house and agent. And I mean, without I’m not no exaggeration. 100% you send your columns that

John Corcoran 14:54

you’d run

Tucker Max 14:55

to like 1000 publishers, and this is back when there were a lot of publishers and a lot of books. And now there’s like 80% less. But there were a lot then I probably sent a knock. I’m not joking. Like, I know it was at least 500 it was closer to 1000. Crazy. And like, you know, 95% didn’t send no response. And then everyone else rejects, a few people actually will personalize rejection letters, like, you should never write an email again, like, you should never you should give this up and go into bartending or whatever. And, and so like, but that was when I was getting my emails forwarded back to me. So I’m like, Okay, well, these people are stupid. They don’t know. I know. And which, obviously, is slightly delusional. But also I had evidence it was right. They’re Sure. Um, and so then I put my stuff up on the internet, because it’s 2002. Right? This is like, I am back when God free WordPress.

John Corcoran 15:45

free WordPress. Yeah. geo cities. Yeah. Yes. Added US cities page. Yeah.

Tucker Max 15:50

And it took off man, like, and this is, you know, back when no one was writing on the internet for free. Like, that was not a thing at all.

John Corcoran 16:00

Yeah, and or how to monetize it? Did you figure out how you use it must have been experiments and to figure out how to make money. I never figured out how to make money. So it wasn’t until you finally did, the books came out? The books came out. Okay. And then how did an agent find you and contact you?

Tucker Max 16:18

publishers. So MTV did a thing on internet dating. This is back when it was weird and creepy to meet people on the internet. Like now it’s like half of people meet on the fact that it was super weird. I

John Corcoran 16:30

got it. So hi. Yeah,

Tucker Max 16:31

right. And I had a date application page on my website, like, ridiculous, like, on our first date, it was like a multiple choice. And I was like, what are we gonna do on our first date, shoot guns, go to strip clubs, shoot guns at a strip club, you know, like, stuff like that, right? Like, and girls loved it. And like it actually worked with girls who like to go out and date with me and stuff. And so MTV came and filmed a special about me and like two or three other people. And it blew up and my sight through the roof and all this stuff. And so then the publishers came back to me. Got it. And then, but but it took I mean, it was not until 2006. My book actually came out. Wow.

John Corcoran 17:11

Wow. So that was a bit of time then. So were you making ends meet doing different things during that time.

Tucker Max 17:17

Mainly glomming off of girls. Yeah, I wish I could tell you some noble story. But I think God’s honest truth is mainly glory. Like, you know, I would do whatever. You remember, speed dating, I used to host speed dating events, right? Which totally fit my personality. Because you show up at night, you drink a lot. You make fun of people who are used to stuff like that. Like if you flirt with girls, like I was so good at that. Anything that didn’t require me to be in an office? Or to fit like that normal social? Yeah, all the normal corporate stuff. I did like bartending a little bit. I did, although that was a lot of hard work, which I wasn’t a fan of. So

John Corcoran 18:02

Yeah, that is hard work. They work. They work for that. Yeah. So naturally, this is a natural trajection into running a multibillion-dollar multimillion-dollar business. You know, with dozens or hundreds of people working for you. Naturally, you know, we

Tucker Max 18:16

just passed 50 million in sales. We’re a big company, we have 65 full time and like almost 300 freelancers, right? We’re like a growth company, dude.

John Corcoran 18:26

You’re gonna have people who’ve gone through Scribe Media, we’re gonna look at your measly 4.5 million. They’ll be like, Oh, that’s cute. But that was substantial. I mean, your book sold a zillion

Tucker Max 18:39

and they sold millions of copies. My book, the only person we’ve worked with described so far, who’s probably gonna beat me and sales is David Goggins. Like he hasn’t yet I know his exact sales numbers. He’ll be in it when his next book comes out. He’ll pass me.

John Corcoran 18:52

Wow, very cool. So, but it took you a while to get around to starting Scribe Media, which originally called book in the box, and I remember being at mastermind talks in 2015. I think it was. Yeah, that’s basically when it launched. Yeah, I remember you, you talking about it, then? What convinced you to get into that line of work, man.

Tucker Max 19:16

So this is how bad of an entrepreneur for years. So when you’ve written books, right, small little books that

John Corcoran 19:25

I published on Amazon, yeah.

Tucker Max 19:27

Okay. But, but yeah, okay. When you tell people that you get two questions, what’s your book about? How’d you do it? Because like, Can you tell me how to write a book, right? There’s always the two questions you get. And I got the same two questions. And dummy. I used to answer the second question like, how do I do it very sincerely. Like I would tell people actually how to become a writer and write a book. No one wants to hear that. I mean, like 1% of people want to, everyone else is basically asking how do I get it done without having to do the work? And, and, you know, I was dumb. So I did. Recognize that for a decade. And then finally I was at this entrepreneur dinner and this one woman asked me the same question, like, how do I write a book, and she was a big time entrepreneur and had a family total badass. And she’s like, everyone’s been asking me for this book, and I’m just not going to do it. So how do I get it out of my head? And I was like, Are you asking me how to write a book without writing? She’s like, yeah. And so I started making fun of her. And like, kind of, you know, teaser. And she rolls her eyes out of our head at me. And she’s like, Tucker, this is an entrepreneur dinner. Are you an entrepreneur? I’m like, Yeah, of course. And she’s like, I don’t think so. Because a real entrepreneur would help me solve my problem and not lecture me about hard work. And I was like, Oh, right, that I did. Because he was right. You know, when someone calls you out, and they’re so right, you come and get mad, right? Yeah. So like, I just, I got obsessed with the idea. How do I get a book out of her head? And not ghostwriting? Right, like she was, she worked in retail, or some horrible field that I didn’t ever want to learn anything about. And so it was like, had to be her ideas, her words, her voice, right? And so how do I do that? And then like, it took me two months, because I’m slow. But I’m like, Oh, this is a solved problem. Scribes, like Socrates, literally didn’t write a word down. That was Plato. Jesus didn’t write a word down as the apostle Buddha never wrote a word down. That was a nanda and all the rest of the disciples. So there is whatever, followers go through the list, right? And so I was like, Okay, I could totally do that. And like, I literally wrote down every step to publish a book, right and publish a book, and there’s like a bunch, but you only need the author for like 30 or 40% of it. It’s an important 30 or 40%. But it’s not all of it by any stretch. So it’s like, okay, and like, I just interviewed her, we kind of figured out the structure and the outline. And then I basically was like, Okay, I asked her questions and got the book out of her. Now, obviously, you know, I had to get it transcribed. You have to work with it to turn it from spoken English and written English, because they’re not at all the same. But like, they’re not producing a great book. And then she was super happy with it. And like, she paid me. I didn’t care about the money because this was, you know, more my ego at stake here. Yeah. And then she’s like, how much should I tell my friends you charge? I like what she’s like, for this service. And I’m like, why would you tell them that? She’s like that, because my friends have asked me how I did this. So I’m gonna send them to you. I’m like, No, don’t do that. Doing this again. What I said, Okay, well, I’m just going to tell them whatever. 15 grand I’m like, okay, whatever, like, I’m not gonna work with them, but tell them whatever your. And so she started sending all these people to me,

John Corcoran 22:38

just like the email for it’s all over again, by the way, it’s repeating itself.

Tucker Max 22:43

But this is how dumb of an entrepreneur was, I’d like it didn’t even occur to me that this was a business even though people were asking me for it for a decade. And so I was working with a guy named Zach Obront, who’s now my co-founder, on a different project. And I’m like, hey, Zach is actually a really good writer and a smart dude. And I’m like, I told them when I did, and I’m like, do you want to, like, just take these projects for me? And we’ll just split the money. And he’s like, sure. And so I ended up doing a different podcast and just talking about this randomly. And the host was all excited about it, and then getting a bunch of emails from that. And so Zach, comes up to you. And he goes, dude, we’ve done a quarter million dollars in sales. And I’m like, What? Do you think this is a business? I’m like, Yeah, totally. I can tell you the exact week that was because my son was also born that week. That was the first week of august of 2014. So we’re coming up on seven years.

John Corcoran 23:38

Wow. Yeah. And, and so what were some of the challenges of building it? You know, it sounds like demand wasn’t a challenge. So you had that was fine. But there’s plenty of other challenges such as hiring good people and putting systems in place?

Tucker Max 23:53

This was so hard. I’ll tell you why. Because what we do is we help people write, publish and market their books. We take them all the way through the process, right? And these are people like you who are intelligent, successful, accomplished, like entrepreneurs, you know, high level executives, CEOs, celebrities, athletes, people who, you know, this isn’t like, not not the Walmart crowd. I mean, it’s funny, I went to Walmart today with my kids, but, but you know what I mean? And so like, these are demanding people, right? And so like, trying to scale, do help doing if I did 10 or 20 books a year and had like, one or two people, three people working with me, this would be like, you know, whatever, a half million million dollar a year business or something like that. And like it makes a nice profit. And there’s literally an infinite number of those businesses right now. Right? Yeah, that’s, that’s not what you wanted, though. No, no. Well, I mean, yeah, big Go big or go home kind of guy. Exactly. I wanted to like to do the definitive Like the brand and the space, the company like there was there wasn’t one. There still isn’t. Except for us. Like, there’s plenty of great little companies, but no one did a big and so scaling that was so hard, right? Like being able to write 10 books in a year. totally doable 100 books in a year. That’s a different monster. And we’ve got 1000 authors in process right now, dude. So like, it was so difficult to scale, a creative process that fits alongside a high touch customer service process. Man, this was like it I can’t even take credit for when we got to two and a half million the wheels came off, the company totally broke, I had no idea how to scale it. And we got totally lucky. One of our clients was this man named JeVon McCormick, who was at the time the President of head spring software, and kind of looking for his next thing, loved our service, loved their product. And kinda was coaching me on how to be CEO. And finally, I’m like, will you just please come run this so I don’t have to. And, and that literally, he took over that we’ve done two and a half million sales, and we just crossed 50 million. It’s him, man. He comes from the sales ops background. And he’s just brilliant at it. And so good. And here we are.

John Corcoran 26:18

And what did you learn, particularly around hiring? You know, you were chatting before and I think it was before the interview, and you were saying it’s mostly Gen Z, Millennials that are that work for you, which presents a challenge in itself. But how do you find, you know, people that I don’t know if the way that it works? If they do both customer support? And no writing? No. So they’re totally different people. Okay, so that’s interesting in itself. So you decided to separate those out? Yeah,

Tucker Max 26:47

There’s no other way because writers tend to be pretty terrible at organization. And customer service and customer service. People aren’t Right. I mean, you don’t just turn someone into a writer, writers, great writers, because we have to work with good, really good high level people. We can’t just hire some schmo off Fiverr. Right. These are people who need a decade of experience who’ve done dozens of books, right? And so that, like, that’s a very specific skill. You know, it’s like hiring I don’t know, like an eye surgeon or something or like it’s a, you can just have a radiologist substitute for an eye surgeon, I guess it’s a thing. But Customer service is a different skill. There are very, very few people who are really good at both. Yeah. So now those are separate men, the whole thing? I’ll tell you, it’s funny. I’ll tell you what we do in hiring, it’s actually pretty simple. And we’re pretty good at it, is our whole process. First of all, we very clearly define our values, you know, our culture, who we are, and then our whole process is our hiring process. First is skill fit, can they do the job? Once we know that their skill fit? We don’t care about skill fit anymore? And then it’s Who are they as a person? Right? Are they going to fit with our culture, thrive in our culture? do well with it or not? Right? That’s all it is really. And it’s getting to understand and know them? Not? Nothing. There’s so all the other hiring stuff is silly and nonsense, man, we’ve tested everything. Yeah, every test, all that stuff?

John Corcoran 28:20

And have you had to build out experts in all these different subject matters. For what do you mean for the writers? I mean, yeah, you’re hiring writers that, you know, we have an aerospace book that’s coming up and

Tucker Max 28:31

no, so our writers are, so we have about 125 or so they’re all freelance, you know, or part time. I think we have like three that are full time 123, maybe four that are full time. But like, almost all of them are freelance, because I’ll tell you why. Art, the best writers, the best ghostwriters charge, you know, anywhere from on the very low end 30 or 40 grand to do a book up to well into the six figures, 100 120 150 grand plot and more. And so we work with them. And so to hire them full time, for they have to, they have to fore-go two or three books a year. Like that, we have to pay them too much. So what we do is we pay them way less like let’s just say that the normal rates 50 grand a book, we’re paying them maybe 15 a book, so why would they work with us? The reason is because they’re actually making as much or more money per hour on the 15 grand with us as they are on the 40 grand for themselves. Right. So like, let’s say they get at 40 grand a book. Let’s say they get three books a year, but it’s a huge pain in the ass. I’ve got to talk to 20 people to sign one. They got to deal with stuff. They got to worry about pain. They’re gonna worry about running the business, right? Yep. But with us, they don’t have to worry about any of that. Like them, they basically get to pick their assignments. And then they come in at a certain point, they do a certain amount of work. And they’re at a certain point, they know they’re going to get paid, that everything’s bound and simple for them. So we get some of the best ghost riders in the world by essentially giving them a process where they can fill their dead space, with really good high quality enjoying paid work.

John Corcoran 30:21

It’s like the Uber of writing, like when they have some downtime, they can fill it.

Tucker Max 30:24

Yep, exactly. And then they end up making anywhere from 50 to 75 bucks an hour, which is, you know, like, maybe it’s good money for a writer a very money for them, you know, maybe not like, if you think about, oh, well, if I get $100,000 book, then it’s not as good, right? But then what did it cost for you to get that, and then all that other stuff. So most of our freelancers are making well into the six figures if you count what we pay them plus what they make on their own.

John Corcoran 30:49

Now, what was it like for you, when you brought this good CEO, JeVon, I think he said his name was in and he took over? Where did you find yourself fitting after that point?

Tucker Max 31:01

That’s a great question. Because for a while, it was a little bit difficult, right? And not because I didn’t want him or because it wasn’t like an ego challenge. It was just like, it’s not an easy thing for the founder to step aside to CEO and still stay in the company

John Corcoran 31:18

and still be there. Yeah, absolutely. It’s much easier for them to go off

Tucker Max 31:22

either lever or run, right. But a big part of it was I intentionally stepped aside for him, I recognize he was better at the job than I was. And like, that was a big part. But there was still the part of me that like, kind of felt like I had to have my hands and everything. And I had to, you know, be in on the decisions and all that sort of stuff. Right? It took me a good three years, I think, to let that go. And for him to kind of step back and be like, okay, just because this dude’s the founder doesn’t mean, you know, like, I’ve got a baby hammer, I’ve got a play, you know, go with what he wants or whatever. You know, it took us a while to navigate that relationship. And now I’m not even the executive myself. Like, I don’t have anything to do with Scribe Media, except when they tell me they need me, right. So like, Hey, we need you to talk to this client. Because you no one else can, or we need you to work on this book, or to go speak here or whatever. And then of course, I do, you know, I’m still doing plenty of Scribe Media stuff. But like, they think of me as like a tool to use. Yeah, I don’t have a day to day responsibility. And now I’m over here, but I like building other stuff that is sort of orthogonal related to Scribe Media, but not exactly Scribe Media. So I’m kind of where I usually I’m off on my own doing my own thing, except now I have a whole company to support me where I need to.

John Corcoran 32:47

And did you ever feel like Geez, what am I gonna do with myself? Did you feel like, adrift or anything like that?

Tucker Max 32:55

Um, I have three kids. So I usually there’s not a shortage to do it, but

John Corcoran 33:02

no, not the one up you. I have four. So I know this. But I know the feeling. I know that

Tucker Max 33:06

we’re working on number four. There you go. Yeah. But there was less shortage of things to do. And more. There’s definitely a difficulty. You know what it feels like, I haven’t had this happen yet, because my kids are all young. But all my friends who have older kids, that are also entrepreneurs that have gone through this, say, it’s very similar to when your kid leaves the house, right? That like when they turn 18, or whatever, when they go off to college, or they move out and they have a part of you that is very, so happy and proud of them that they’re like at that stage of your life. But then another part of you, like, both misses their dependency, and also like, you almost try and reinforce it in a way, right? unintentionally, totally. But you do because you’re so used to it. And so it was the same thing for me, man, it was like, there was I had to go through a lot of stuff where I had to realize, okay, my identity is not Scribe Media. You know, my identity is not I don’t have to know everything that’s going on. And then letting go of that understanding that I know, there’s great people there. I trust them, they’ll call me when they need me, you know, it’s not like I see the pianos and stuff. So it’s not like I’m just like, Oh, I don’t know what’s going on. I’m just not really involved day to day. But yeah, I do. There’s a deep emotional component to that. It’s hard to let go of sometimes. Yeah, I definitely had to work through that.

John Corcoran 34:29

No, no. But you know, it’s interesting because so much has happened in the book publishing space over the last 1015 years, it’s evolved dramatically. So, you know, some might say, Boy crazy to start a book publishing company in this, you know, atmosphere that we’re in. On the other hand, you’re obviously doing well, there’s a demand for it. People want to write books, but there’s also new media, social media, you mentioned podcasts, webinars, YouTube videos, how do you see all those other forms of media coming into play with your company now and moving forward into the future.

Tucker Max 35:05

Great question. So, um, we actually right now. So, you know, we do, everyone knows this for writing and publishing books, we started in books, but something like a third of our business is marketing. Right? So helping market those books and not just like the launch, but like, a good book were good well positioned book just like a good well positioned podcast can market you for years, decades, maybe even in some cases,

John Corcoran 35:32

yeah, people make a career off of a book

Tucker Max 35:35

and have one book sometimes, right. And so um, so what we’ve started doing is really kind of building the entire marketing universe around a book, right. And so like, someone you know, someone like you, smart, successful, wants to be like, sort of known as a thought leader or raise your visibility in this space. What we’ll start with a book, usually, and then build everything off of that, that’s kind of what we’ve, what we’ve built is the ability to do that, right is to kind of build your entire Media Presence off of that. Because I think we’re going into a world where pretty much all of the serious high level professionals, and I mean, professionals in the broadest sense, are going to have to have some form of media, they won’t have to be a book by any stretch, right? But like, you’re gonna have to have a podcast or a book, or some proof of work out there that people can examine, and look at and say, okay, like, now I see who this person is, what they can do, why I would want to work with him, things like that.

John Corcoran 36:36

Yeah. And the funny thing is in the marketing piece, I remember having a conversation with you. It must have been four or five years ago or something. You weren’t doing the marketing for people. Initially, it was just writing the book. And I remember remarking to you that the funny thing is, if you’re you had a reputation as this marketing book marketing whiz, and yet you weren’t leveraging or capitalizing on that. So it sounds like maybe this was the third place where you finally found the market, through demand at you and you finally said are, you know, push it away at first? So at what point did you move from just the done for you into full fledged marketing?

Tucker Max 37:14

So that is one place where I can say we knew we were going to get into that eventually. The problem was in the Serb high end, high touch service base. If you go too fast, you break, right, like so it’s the opposite of Facebook, in software, go fast break things, okay, maybe can’t do that in service business we deal with well known, successful people can’t do it. You got to go piece by piece, because you got to nail every single piece. Because someone like you, if we tell you alright, John, I can do two things. And I will nail those two things. You’ll be like, okay, cool, great. You’re not gonna get mad that I don’t do eight things, right? You’ll be like, Alright, awesome. You nailed two things. If you can do that I can be. But if I tell you, I can do eight things. And even if I do six of them, well, if I do one mediocre one bad, you’re gonna think I’m bad. Right? And so that’s why we’ve slowly rolled out each piece. We can absolutely go faster, but not successfully.

John Corcoran 38:13

Yeah. Yeah, very wise. I want to wrap things up with a question I enjoy asking, which is a big fan of gratitude. And so if you look around, particularly your peers and contemporaries, however you want to define that, you know, so others. Obviously, this is an entrepreneurial journey, you’ve come across a lot. And you’ve mentioned a few names in this interview, but who out there of your peers and contemporaries Do you respect or you admire the work that they’re doing?

Tucker Max 38:42

The tough question. It’s a harder question than I thought, honestly. Seems like it’d be an easy question, but it’s not. So I don’t want to mention my friends. You know, like Tim Ferriss, a good friend of mine, so I guess that’s unfair.

John Corcoran 38:58

Let’s start with him. What do you respect and admire about his career? Um,

Tucker Max 39:03

I mean, there’s a lot there. Look, I mean, I know the front career and then the back career. I know how, how difficult it’s been for him and how much he’s struggled. And I know it looks easy on the outside, because he’s made it look at me. He’s kind of tired. He’s put that image out there. But it’s been difficult, you know, and he’s worked very hard for it. And relentlessly, single minds worked very, very hard to make that happen.

You know what, it’s not that I can’t find a lot of people that I respect and admire. Honestly, I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about other people. Right? And not in an arrogant way, or in a narcissistic way. I just mean, like, I feel like my job is to do my work, and then help others the ones that I can with theirs. Right. And so the more I spend time thinking about or looking at others, it’s, it’s just a way to avoid my own. You know, that makes sense.

John Corcoran 40:10

Yeah. I mean, there’s some who spend too much time focused on others thinking about others, rather than just putting their head down and focusing on what they Yeah,

Tucker Max 40:17

I mean, like I could, I would tell you almost anyone, truly anyone who gets up every day and makes a real legitimate effort to do something that’s meaningful to them and useful to others. I mean, I got respect for I don’t care if they’re a janitor, or if they’re Elon Musk.

John Corcoran 40:37

Yeah.

Tucker Max 40:39

Yeah. Like that’s, you know, I like I think that’s, that’s the only thing we’re here to do, man is to like, love the people that we have a relationship with do work that matters to them in the world, you know? Yeah. And so, yeah, that’s great. That’s great. I know, I’m not a great answer. But like I was, what’s what came to my head?

John Corcoran 41:01

Well, you know, there’s another question that I ask frequently, which is looking further back in your trajectory. If you look back to maybe your childhood, maybe law school, maybe college, and that is if if you’re receiving an award for Lifetime Achievement, and awards banquet, and you’re giving a speech, who would you that not just family and friends but I’m thinking about mentors, coaches, people, business partners, investors, people who along the way helped you at critical junctures helped you with a overcoming a challenge or growing a new business? Who would that be? The management team at your dad’s restaurant, I imagined

Tucker Max 41:45

those guys, I might pull the Jordan, and thank all the people who wronged me, you know, like to do like one of those real bitter, I wouldn’t be as bitter as he was about it. But I could I could see myself doing maybe not now, but I would have like,

John Corcoran 41:59

just us, right? It? Can it can. Yeah, um,

Tucker Max 42:05

you know, it’s funny. It’s like, I wouldn’t trade live with Jordan though. Like, he’s an amazing basketball player, the greatest ever, still bitter and angry about nonsense he made up in his head, and it’s like, there’s a price you pay for that, you know? Like, I legit would not trade lies for him. I swear to God. Yeah. So who would I think I honestly, man, I would have to start with my wife. And, my CEO and my co-founder. I haven’t had many, for better or worse, I have not had many mentors. You know, if I would, if I want to name my mentors, they’d mainly be dead people who wrote books that I read, that I read, you know, like, I’m not kidding. Like, if I was picking mentors. No one in my life has influenced me more than Cyrus the grace or Buddha? Or Socrates or, you know, America. galenica. Malcolm X. Yeah, you know, accepting the people closest to me, that I’m in relationships with I love you know, like, those are those are the ones who have had the most influence on me, man. Yeah, not it’s not mentors, you know, like, so. Some people have mentors that work great for them. It’s never for whatever reason, it’s never worked for me.

John Corcoran 43:31

Yeah, no, I mean, I think a lot of people struggle with that anyways. Well, Tucker, this has been great. Scribe Media as the name of the company. Where can people go to learn more about you?

Tucker Max 43:40

Scribemedia.com. For the company or tuckermax.com for me. Excellent. All right, Tucker. Thanks so much. Thanks.

Outro 43:47

Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.