Yeah. He came back two weeks later. And was like, can we get lunch? And he said, you know, I’ve grown this business as far as I feel like I can on my own, and I’m really looking for a partner that understands that growth mentality and can help push me to the next level. So if you’re open to it, I would love to partner with you. And I said, well, I have no idea what’s going on with my business and I can’t do anything until this divorce is over. And he’s like, okay, sounds great. I’ll talk to you then kind of thing.
And as soon as the divorce ended and all of the I’s were dot, the T’s were crossed and I could start a new agency, I did, and I did it with him, and he handled all of the digital side of the agency while I handled all of the design branding side of the agency, and we grew it to get into EOA. And I have always wanted to be an EOA. Well, EO and EOA.
John Corcoran: 11:52
The EO’s Accelerator program, which I did, was great. Yeah.
Brennah Davis: 11:57
And while I was in that group, I will do what you want me to now talk about the downfall of that and where.
John Corcoran: 12:03
Sure. Yeah. So this business partner you through this process, I think you realize that you just kind of different visions of where you wanted to take the company, right?
Brennah Davis: 12:13
Correct. We had the same values, different visions. And that really came into play when I was in the EO program. And understanding where you want to take your business. And when we sat down and looked at where we wanted to go, we just had completely different paths.
And so the relationship ended with very a lot of respect. And I still respect him to this day and I would work with him. He’s an awesome person. And we just we divided, you know, the business and settled it easily. And our contract was very strict.
So it was it was just we got it done in a month and we moved on and my coach in my group was said, Brennah, what are you going to do? And I was like, I don’t know. I think I’ll just do what I’m good at. And he’s like, no, no, no. Let’s like, let’s see what else there is.
Like, the world is your oyster. This is a great moment to pivot. And that’s where The Marketing Matchmakers was born.
John Corcoran: 13:13
He so you kind of came to this realization that you didn’t want to be putting out fires every day, and you liked the process of matching a company with a marketing agency, and then what, having some kind of like role separate from that, or supervising it or trying to facilitate it. Explain to me what the vision was.
Brennah Davis: 13:35
Yeah. Well, there was there’s really not there’s businesses out there that help you find agencies, like there’s a website called Clutch. And Clutch has agencies that you can search and get reviews, but it doesn’t help you match to see if it’s the right fit for you. And a lot of businesses struggled with closing the deal with agencies because they’re just they’re unsure. They’ve been burned so bad. They’ve spent so much money.
They’ve had promises made to them that were never delivered. And so it there’s a really bad taste in people’s mouth about marketing. And I wanted to change that. I wanted to be the advocate that was there to say, hey, this agency I’ve worked with and I know that they’re going to do what they say they’re going to do. And that was where so many people would come to me and say, hey, I need help with this.
And I would say, hey, that’s not my niche, it’s not what I do. And that was kind of what sparked the conversation with my coach and my coach. It was actually his idea and he was like, I get this question all the time. Who do I talk to? And so that led to this needs to be a business the people need to help businesses find the agency because they spend so much money, and it’s so painful to choose the wrong agency.
John Corcoran: 14:54
And how did you develop a process for determining what is a match and what isn’t? Did you look at other tools out there? Did you develop your own tool? Did you just kind of like try different things?
Brennah Davis: 15:06
Yeah, I honestly it’s more of a my knowledge of marketing and understanding people. I pride myself on really understanding people and what they’re looking for and asking the right questions. I also have this gift, I’ll call it, where people tell me a lot of things out of nowhere, and they’re very transparent and just drop it all on me.
John Corcoran: 15:31
That can be dangerous. That can be dangerous.
Brennah Davis: 15:34
But it’s very helpful with my job.
John Corcoran: 15:36
Yeah.
Brennah Davis: 15:37
And so it allows me to hear what they’re saying and kind of dig in. And then I ask more, deeper questions to really understand what they’re after. They may come to me and say, I’m looking for social media. And my next question is why? And they’re like, well, I want leads.
And and it it’s like, okay, but have you thought about lead gen and what does that look like and why is social media your answer. And so we I really do push to understand because I don’t want them to spend money in something that isn’t going to return on investment for them.
John Corcoran: 16:16
Isn’t it funny how you can have these realizations about yourself, like this realization that people feel comfortable with me and tell me things that they wouldn’t tell someone else, and then you figure out a way to have that, to leverage that in a sense through your business. And it can take people a long time to come to those epiphanies to, to to realize one realize that about themselves. And two, find a way to work it into their business.
Brennah Davis: 16:45
I have to say, I’ve known this for a long time since I’ve been in college, I. This is just a side story. I was like in a grocery store, and this guy turned around and told me some of his deepest, darkest secrets. And I was like, this is weird. And then I started noticing the pattern of this happening.
And so I’ve known this for a very long time, that I do have this gift, and I do take advantage of it because I want to really help people.
John Corcoran: 17:11
That’s great. That’s great. Yeah. And there’s lots of other people who probably, you know, equally struggle with, with getting people to reveal those things and how much easier life would be for them. So let’s let’s talk then a bit about like some of the struggles that companies have when they come to you.
You know, I imagine things like been burned before. Not sure what to ask these agencies, not sure where to source them, how to supervise them and hold them to certain metrics when we’re working with them. What it’s like to work with you. Let’s, let’s, let’s talk about some of the things that people have when they come to you.
Brennah Davis: 17:48
Everything you said is correct. So I mean, there are horror stories where I’ve heard of businesses spending upwards of $2 million with an agency and never seeing anything ever come back to them. I’ve, you know, heard these horror stories over and over and over again. I’ve heard of project managers that, you know, are see things different politically, and they work with a company that’s, you know, views politics different. And that kind of comes into play when it shouldn’t.
And I’ve just seen people take advantage, be taken advantage of. And that makes me sick to my stomach. And if I know of a situation like that I will refuse to work with that agency. I also refuse to work with clients that are. What is the right word?
That they’re just toxic and bullying. I will refuse if I hear of any bad behavior in a client towards an agency, I won’t match them again because there are people that are very horrible to other people and they and think that they are owed the moon when they are not. So it does go both sides.
John Corcoran: 19:03
And then how do you feel? How did you figure out a business model for yourself? Like is it a straight commission from the agency so that the company that’s hiring will kind of hiring you? They don’t have to pay anything upfront or do you charge a fee? How does that work?
Brennah Davis: 19:18
Yeah. So I don’t charge businesses anything to work with me. I am completely free to them. Most marketing companies that are, you know, mature, usually have some kind of sales or commission built into their structure.
John Corcoran: 19:34
They’re either paying to their salesperson or they’re paying to some other party like yourself.
Brennah Davis: 19:40
Right? Or you know they’re paying X amount towards ads and.
John Corcoran: 19:44
Yeah.
Brennah Davis: 19:44
And they have their own marketing budget and they, and they do put out commissions and sales for they might have a sales team. Yeah. So I ask for 10% of the lifetime of the client I don’t leave. The other thing is I don’t just pass off a client to an agency and say like, They’re yours. Good luck.
John Corcoran: 20:04
Yeah.
Brennah Davis: 20:04
I want to make sure that there’s good synergy and it continues to be good synergy. I want to know that the agency is showing up the way that they said they would. I want to know that that client is respectful and getting that agency everything that they need. And I want to know those things, because if that agency comes, I want to refer that business or business to that agency again. But if that client comes back, I want to know that I can actually work with them.
John Corcoran: 20:30
Yeah. And how do you keep tabs on it all? Is it just like, okay, I’ll make a reminder in a month, I’ll follow up with the client, the company, and I’ll follow up with the agency. Or do you participate in calls or does it vary?
Brennah Davis: 20:43
I sometimes participate in calls if I need to, but I have a CRM that kind of tracks everything for me and I monitor, and I also have a lot of my clients end up becoming really close to me. And so we will get coffee. We will, you know, I will send them a text message letting them know I think about them. I try really hard to make sure that they know that I’m there for them at all times, so they might get a handwritten letter just letting them know, and then they’ll reach out to me, and then we’ll kind of touch base. Whatever it is, I try my best to keep the engagement with everybody ongoing.
As far as the agencies are concerned, some of them have a few of my clients, so we’ll touch base once a month and just see, hey, how’s it going? How are they doing? What’s going on, anything new. And it’s a pretty quick, easy conversation.
John Corcoran: 21:38
Yeah. And now in the, in the marketing world. And we’re recording this in late summer 2025. You know, generative AI is coming along. Llms.
There’s just a ton of changing that’s happening. So are you finding that you’re having to do more education for educating the clients? Are you finding that you’re having to do more educating yourself and your team so that you’re abreast of all the changes that are happening? How are you keeping tabs on it all?
Brennah Davis: 22:05
Well, I one when I interview the agencies, I kind of asked them what’s new, what are they looking at? So I recently had a I work with an agency often. And that agency, when we spoke, they were telling me of all of the testing that they were doing with AI, what’s been working, what they’re seeing. They give me so much knowledge and all I have to do is ask. So I have a few meetings set up with a few agencies just to deep dive on their expertise in the AI world to better understand them and how to pitch their services.
And what is that looking like? There are some agencies that are not getting on the AI train, and I don’t know what’s going to happen. I respect their decision as an agency, but depending on what field it is, it could end up hurting them in the long run, I don’t know. We don’t know. But I am staying on top of understanding which agencies are moving with AI and which ones are not.
John Corcoran: 23:03
You definitely do see, like even over the last 510 years, you see certain buzzwords, certain concepts becoming hot. And, you know, sometimes agencies, maybe they tire of those trends and so they go the opposite direction. They’re like, I’m not going to chase those trends. I’m going to keep on doing what I’ve been doing all along type of thing. And then you see other, you know, agencies that are that are like, well, you know, people are searching for it, they’re asking about it.
So I’m going to position myself as an expert in it, even if what I’m delivering is not ultimately that much markedly different from what? You know, what I would do without this being a popular term? It’s definitely you see different approaches that people take on these things.
Brennah Davis: 23:47
I think the biggest struggle that is been hard is tracking what AI is doing in the marketing world. And I think that that’s a big topic of conversation that I’ve been having is how do we track how AI is affecting marketing?
John Corcoran: 24:02
Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely evolving. Like I, I started a small, just group of business owners that were tracking these things, and one person recently was sharing what he was doing and the results he was getting from it. And it’s like there there’s no books written on these things yet. You know, it’s it’s like to find this knowledge, you have to find find the right community of people that are doing tests, that are experimenting, that are trying to see what’s working and what’s not, or you pay really close attention to Twitter, or you consume a lot of YouTube content, like, you know, it’s like it’s it’s so quick that it’s it’s amazing how these things are changing, you know? Yeah.
It’s hard to keep tabs on all that stuff.
Brennah Davis: 24:43
Well, and that’s why I rely on the experts to teach me. Yeah, because they’re the ones digging in and and having these conversations with their current clients. They’re the ones doing all the testing. They’re the ones that are seeing what’s happening. So it’s really nice to have that.
So that conversation with them.
John Corcoran: 24:59
So then that segues to the idea of setting expectations. If the marketing world is changing so dramatically, how do these companies set realistic expectations of the agencies that are doing the work for them? If that world is changing so much?
Brennah Davis: 25:15
I it’s definitely a hard conversation to have as far as what our expectations of agencies and what are and what you should. For example, you know, if you were to hire an ads company, you know, a lot of times they’re going to need 3 to 6 months and some people won’t sign on for that long. But to understand that you’re going to need four months before you even see something. And that’s really a hard pill to swallow if you’re spending a lot of money. I mean, that’s what you should be expecting from the beginning.
But it’s. And then with SEO there, there’s times that you won’t see much happening for six months, because that’s a slow build, and the expectation that you’re going to sign up with SEO today and see something happen tomorrow is unrealistic.
John Corcoran: 26:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s funny, when I was an attorney practicing law, I used to say that you build up the expectation before you close someone as a client, and then once they become a client, you have to immediately lower that expectation. Really? Yeah. So that you can exceed it later.
That’s kind of the pattern you have to follow.
Brennah Davis: 26:19
Well, and then I think that there’s one thing that kind of can hurt certain agencies, just depending on what it is, is, you know, if they’re if the agency has leaders on boards, there’s questions that I do ask the agencies about their team and how it’s set up is they have expectations of their team to take on too much work and be the ones looking into the education, and they’re not doing it as leaders. And so I like to ask questions about that, because I want to know who is the real expert in what. What are they learning and how are they adapting. And is there too much on their plate that they don’t have the capacity to really take on more? Or what is that?
What does that all look like? Right.
John Corcoran: 26:57
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned earlier that when you were running your agency, you know, hair was on fire, you were stressed out. Now it’s maybe not on your shoulders because it’s the agency ultimately that’s responsible. But I imagine there still has got to be times when, you know, some maybe the agency and the business, your client, their relationship is crumbling or they’re at dispute over something.
Have you found that with this business model, you’ve been able to get away from the things that were stressing you out before? Do you still feel like you’re exposed to those things?
Brennah Davis: 27:28
I am exposed in a totally different way and it’s not as stressful. So I’ll give you an example. I had a client who they were working with an agency. The agency forwarded me an email out of nowhere from the client, and it was very passive aggressive. And it was just blindsided.
And they called me and said, Brennah, what do we do with this? And I was like, this is really weird. So I end up calling the client and was like, hey, how are you not letting them know that I knew about this email? And it turns out the owner of the business died. Oh, and the person running the account was overwhelmed.
So stressed how, you know, was just trying to figure out every fire and close things down, but didn’t know what to close, what to keep. And so immediately, once I found this out, I was like, how do I support you? I know the agency you know is there for you. Do we need to pause services for the time being? Do we need to scale back until you get everything in order?
And she was so grateful to just have that conversation. But she didn’t approach it with being transparent about what was going on. And so I like to provide that transparency on both sides. And as soon as the marketing agency found out what was going on, they sent a very heartfelt email and explained how they were there for them, and I it just all got solved. But that was one way that communication could have just killed the relationship.
John Corcoran: 28:57
Yeah, yeah, that’s such a great story. It’s so nice that you were there to help, to smooth things over and support the person who was taking over the agency after the owner passed away. This has been great. I want to wrap up with a final question. I’m a big fan of gratitude, especially expressing gratitude to those who’ve helped you in your journey.
And you’ve mentioned a few people here, like your EOA coach, who helped you to figure out what your next chapter would be. Who would you want to acknowledge? Any peers, any contemporaries, any mentors that you would want to shout out?
Brennah Davis: 29:29
Yeah, I mean, I huge shout-out to Adam Arkfeld. He was my EOA coach, and then I, my mentor in EOA, was Ed Drummond. He is amazing. And then the person who inspired me to be in the EO world is Jon Rosenberg. So shout out to all of them.
And then, I mean, I have an amazing support system. They all know who they are and I love them so dearly.
John Corcoran: 29:54
That’s great.
Brennah Davis: 29:54
So grateful.
John Corcoran: 29:55
And Brennah, you are launching Marketing Unmuted is your new video slash podcast series. Tell us about it.
Brennah Davis: 30:02
Yeah, so I will be launching it with an agency called Unframed Digital, and the owner and I found out that we actually have the same birthday, and it was just of coincidence.
John Corcoran: 30:13
Okay. And it was really awesome.
Brennah Davis: 30:15
But she owns a digital agency specializing in SEO. So these conversations about the AI world are really awesome. And her and I are going to just talk about a lot of these hot topics of marketing, the expectations, how to pick a marketing partner, or what you should be expecting to pay. And the red flags, the green flags on both sides. So we will be having little short spurt videos on LinkedIn talking about all of the different marketing talk topics.
And we’re calling it Marketing Unmuted because we want to have those hard conversations.
John Corcoran: 30:49
Nice, nice. Yeah. I mean, I’ve been podcasting for 16 years now and it is one of the best things I’ve done in my life, both personally and professionally. It’s been such an amazing gift to talk to smart people like yourself, and to be able to meet interesting people. The Marketing Matchmakers is themarketingmatchmakers.com.
Is that the website?
Brennah Davis: 31:07
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 31:07
Okay. All right. Go check it out there. And, Brennah, thanks so much for your time.
Brennah Davis: 31:12
Thank you. I really enjoyed it today. Thank you.
Outro: 31:17
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution podcast. We’ll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.