John Corcoran: 12:53
Yeah. I’ve interviewed others who do mail of different forms on this podcast, and mail has changed dramatically over the last 15, 20 years because as everything has moved digital, there’s actually less competition for the mailbox. So talk a little bit about that.
Josh Grossfeld: 13:10
Yeah, that’s exactly right. I mean, when I first got into this, until now, I really never thought I’d still be in this this long, to be quite honest. I thought, you know, and this was the talk of the industry at the time, like digital is coming in. It’s going to sort of, you know, blow that, blow direct mail out, out as a medium. And what we’ve seen happen is quite the contrary.
We’ve seen, you know, that that pie has grown a little bit larger. The competition has been lower in the mailbox. And, and some of the, the noise that has been created by the bifurcation of television and like the amount of digital ads people get, mail is now ironically, one of the least saturated of the media. Now it’s gotten more expensive. So your mail volume, your progress won’t be as large.
But you know, direct mail still allows you to, like, directly target individuals like who you want to receive your message without having to go through a bunch of different, different hoops. And, you know, they’re getting it, like whether or not they like getting it, they have to pick that piece of paper up and they have to look at it before they toss it in the trash. And I think some of the, the changes that, that we’re trying to see in the industry that, you know, a handful of us, particularly the political industry, are trying to work through is sort of how do we take some of the great things about digital in terms of the transparency and accountability and apply that to, to, to mail?
And so fortunately, there’s a lot of technologies that are coming around there with, you know, the scannable barcodes and the ability to sort of really track delivery rates, where I think we’re going to be able to bring a lot of the that transparency and accountability to direct mail will be a dashboard that we’re building out right now, where folks can actually see the delivery rates of their mail and have that, you know, trigger different events for maybe a follow up text or a follow up phone or a follow up email. So it can really be part of this sort of omnichannel component of communication for the.
John Corcoran: 14:43
Yeah, because we’ve gotten used to, you know, at least on the digital side, seeing results instantaneously hour by hour. So it’s kind of weird to see such lagging indicators. It could be six months later when people cast their ballot. You know, it doesn’t help really much in terms of a campaign making a decision earlier in the race.
Josh Grossfeld: 15:01
Yeah. So we’re really trying to build in more measurables along the way there to help, you know, provide some checkpoints along the way about how those campaigns are going.
John Corcoran: 15:09
And do you see technology affecting your industry, like is AI going to change the way that you do what you do, or do you think it’ll still not have as much of an impact?
Josh Grossfeld: 15:19
No, I think it could have a pretty big impact. And I think that some of the struggles that the party and the industry is going through right now is sort of how to balance that, right? I mean, a lot of the campaign messaging is, is not incredibly rocket science, right? There’s, you know, we go through a process of, you know, agreeing on different messaging. But once that messaging is locked, it’s a lot of repetition.
And so, you know, an AI could create a lot of that content. I think one of the things that our firm that we’re really trying to emphasize is that, you know, ultimately this needs to be for humans by humans. And so while there may be AI tools that are used to sort of help, you know, create the baseline of a product, you know, that final, that final 50% of it needs to be done by humans with like that, that real the real viewpoint of like, how is someone on the ground really going to react to this? But very easily, if someone wanted to, they could create a company right now with one employee and use AI to kind of crank out everything. And I think they probably have a pretty good business. I don’t know how long it would last, but I think you could definitely make a go of it right now.
John Corcoran: 16:15
Yeah.
Josh Grossfeld: 16:16
The technology available out there for the creation of the content and the design itself, it’s there. It’s there right now.
John Corcoran: 16:22
You have had your company since 2015. Well, first of all, why did you decide to go out and strike out on your own?
Josh Grossfeld: 16:30
Yeah. I mean, I worked at another firm for about ten years. Learned a lot there. Thought I was going to sort of on a partner track. And it became clear that the owner, sort of as well intentioned as he was like.
Was not ready to sort of let go of his baby in that way. And I was definitely ready to sort of take on my own thing. And so I took the leap. My wife, fortunately at the time, worked at Google, so we had a little bit of a cushion to know, at least for next year, that we could try to pull it off. And so jumped with no clients, just hoping that we could put something together.
Fortunately, you know, within a month, you know, got a pretty good contract for a medicaid health insurance company that, you know, kept things going. And then a few of my clients started coming back and we were able to sort of build something out pretty, pretty quickly over the 15 to 16 cycle. So that one was just pure entrepreneurial instinct. Like I knew I knew I had to do my own thing. But also, having worked in the industry for so long, I also knew there’s another way to sort of build out these companies.
And my business partner Emily Parcell felt the same way. So, you know, we both came from wonderful companies that did, you know, really great work, but also they all came from like the old way of doing politics that is, you know, very much like if you were to take the Silicon Valley startup mentality and throw it with like the political instinct and mushed together, that’s what a lot of these agencies are like, right? So a very high burnout culture, very working till midnight, 1 a.m., etc.. I had kids at the time. I started like, you know, really wanted to refocus on sort of how do I balance having a career and build out this company while having a family as well, and sort of looked around and that we kind of identified that could be one of our key differentiators as a company is that we both want that.
I’m pretty sure there’s other staff that would want that, and pretty sure there’s other clients that would want that too. So we really set about trying to create a different type of, you know, political company that really was more emphasized on delivering really great work, but also balancing that with like, appropriate, you know, company culture that didn’t celebrate burnout but gave people the tools in which to do really great work while also maintaining, like a proper life.
John Corcoran: 18:35
And one of the unique things about your industry is we were talking before and you said you, you know, during different campaign cycles, you go from 12 to, you know, 50, 50 people in a span of a couple of months and then back down again because you have to staff up and then staff back down again. That just seems so difficult. Talk about how you manage to, you know, to manage that process.
Josh Grossfeld: 19:01
Yeah. It’s a, it’s a lot I mean we’ll go anywhere from, you know, 2018 up to upwards of 50 over a 3 to 6 month period. So every two years. I mean, the hardest part is you have to create, you know, a process in place. You know, the Checklist manifesto is one of the first books that really stuck with us as we were building out, is like the only way to feel comfortable letting go of control of part of these processes is knowing that there’s a process in place that people are following that, like if they if they do all these things, you know, for you know that the product will be what is up to the standards of the company.
So, you know, we spend a lot of time putting together, you know, really strict processes there. While also balancing that with not overdoing processes, because I think oftentimes as companies are building this out, they can get so focused on the process they forget about the product. And so really making sure we have that good balance there is really instituting really good training, really good culture and a really good, you know, sort of learning environment for folks. So we really encourage as staff are being onboarded, there’s a whole period of making sure that they are understanding what’s happening. They feel comfortable asking questions.
They’re allowed to make mistakes. And we have, you know, different. You know, nets along the way to make sure that the mistake isn’t so dramatic. It’s not fixable. But really making it comfortable for people if they do make a mistake to own it, own it and come to us with it versus trying to hide it and like, kind of push it through.
So that we’re able to have a learning moment while also making sure that, you know, we’re the product maintains itself. So yeah, process process number one. And we really built that out a lot over the past, you know, 15.
John Corcoran: 20:31
Years when I was an attorney practicing law, what stressed me out was that every month I was starting over from zero. Literally, like, you know, there was no guarantee that I would continue to have the clients from the previous month and people would come and go all the time. And that totally stressed me out from a cash flow standpoint. It was hard to manage that. And I didn’t have a big team.
Did it take a while for you to figure that out, figure out how to manage cash flow so that, you know, during the December and after elections, you know, after primaries, you know, that you have a way of managing your cash flow and your expenses.
Josh Grossfeld: 21:05
I mean, yes and no. And I think. Having the benefit of having grown up in a political, political, family industry and then having been at another firm for ten years, managing sort of all their books, sort of, I got to see pretty good insight into what was working and what wasn’t. And so one of the first things we did when we had the ability was like making sure we had the line of credit to cover us for, for those down parts. But yeah, we make 80% of our income three months every two years, which generally translates to that’s what family does too. So our family budget is a four year budget kind of planned out? We review every month to make sure we’re, we’re, we’re in line there.
So there’s some general adjustments that have to be made, you know, as an individual and as a company, but, you know, just really have to be mindful about planning it out. And then as you mentioned, about like no guarantee of clients, it’s the irony of, oftentimes if you’re successful and you get the person elected, you’ve now lost a client versus if they lose, there’s a potential they’re going to run again.
John Corcoran: 21:58
So it’s just.
Josh Grossfeld: 21:59
You obviously want your person to be successful and win because that’s the good narrative to tell. That’s a good story from a business standpoint. Oftentimes it can mean, you know, that you’ve just lost, you know, that revenue stream for another four years unless they decide to run for something bigger, or a district gets changed around and they get challenged in a primary or something like that. So it’s a very weird industry to sort of navigate successfully.
John Corcoran: 22:20
If you do your job well, you are not rewarded by the client.
Josh Grossfeld: 22:26
Yeah. Right. And hopefully they’re a good reference. And you know we track all of our incoming business development pretty well. And, you know, I’d say more than 50% comes from referrals. So it’s not that it doesn’t pay off. Yeah. But certainly more challenging as you’re trying to navigate what that next two year cycle looks like.
John Corcoran: 22:40
Is it hard generating those referrals when your clients are spread out all around the country and you know you’re in Washington DC, like in the early days, did you have to travel a lot to go do face to face with clients?
Josh Grossfeld: 22:52
That used to be it used to be a road warrior all the time. Yeah. I think Covid has helped. Whether it helped change that or not. Like it certainly changed the expectation that all these meetings are in person.
ET cetera. But I gotta say, like, there’s nothing that really beats in-person conversations. And so, you know, what we have done strategically is that as we hire folks to do business development with us and work with us, we try to hire regionally as well. So I’m the only person that’s based in Washington DC. The rest of my staff is all over the country, so that helps to make sure that, you know, you have your hands in markets that are going to be helpful. And then we just make sure to do the rounds strategically as we’re sort of traveling to, to make those connections and keep those things fresh.
John Corcoran: 23:33
Yeah. Go ahead. I want to ask you about what you’ve witnessed in the different leaders that you’ve worked with and the leadership qualities, because, you know, one of the biggest questions I get over and over again from people is what were they like? People asked me what Bill Clinton was like. I had the benefit of meeting, you know, President Obama before he became president.
I actually met him at a nadir in his campaign when everyone thought that Hillary Clinton would win the nomination. No one thought he was going to win. And he had this kind of quiet confidence in him. And you think about leaders that you’ve been around in the hubbub and the craziness of campaigns. Some of them lose their shit. Others are calm, cool and collected. Talk a little bit about some of the leaders that you’ve worked with and the qualities that you see in them.
Josh Grossfeld: 24:17
Yeah, no, I think, you know, John Bel Edwards was, you know, governor of Louisiana. And you know, how he presented himself on the campaign and in the office was exactly who he was, you know, behind the scenes. right? So, you know, very, very direct, very confident, very open to sort of, you know, feedback, but ultimately was going to be the decision maker. And you can kind of see that in contrast to some of the other cats we worked with, who, you know, you could tell were were not as confident as they presented or wanted people to believe and that that sort of neuroses, you know, translated into sort of how their campaign was run, how their offices were run, like they just couldn’t help but get their hands on things out of a sense of, I think, frankly, probably just a little a lack of self-confidence, ironically.
So you see that play out a lot. The, the, the types of people that are brought into campaigns that are, that choose to run for office are usually highly competent and very, very well suited for what they do or have such strong blind sides based on ego that they’re they’re oblivious to the to the feedback of what they should be doing. So yeah, lots, lots of different examples of good, good and poor leadership in that regard.
John Corcoran: 25:27
Yeah. Early on, you got burned a lot. You didn’t have contracts. And, you know, politics is such a relationship business. It’s easy to assume that, oh, we don’t need to do a contract. You know, people will because of their relationship. They’re certainly going to pay me. But that didn’t always work out.
Josh Grossfeld: 25:46
Yeah, it was a combination of relationships and sort of, you know, within politics in particular, like, you know, hopefully you believe in the causes and the people you’re working for. So you’re caught up in sort of not necessarily emotional, but you’re not don’t always have your business head on. So yeah, definitely in the first couple of years, numerous times where, you know, we’d give a candidate the benefit of the doubt that they’ll they’ll pay, they’ll, you know, they’re good for it, etc., and got burned, you know, get caught, you know, not getting paid for any of the work we did. And, you know, that’s doubly bad in the direct mail industry because, you know, you’re fronting postage. There’s not a lot of places where there’s wiggle room for you to claw back stuff.
You had to have paid to get that going. So learn that lesson the hard way, making sure the contracts are in place and that, you know, we don’t go, we don’t do anything until we’re paid at this point. Because the other thing that’s unique about political campaigns is, by definition, their goal is to be out of money by the time we get to Election Day. And so if you haven’t collected everything by the time Election Day comes, you know that business is shutting down. There’s no money to collect and there’s no one to collect from. So yeah, definitely, definitely a high risk scenario.
John Corcoran: 26:44
I’ve always thought that the craziest thing about campaigns is managing that money so that you don’t end up with $100,000 or $1 million in the bank on the day after the election, or else you lose by a couple of votes. You’re like, damn it, we could have won if we just spent all this money. On the other hand, you can’t run out of money a week or two before the election.
Josh Grossfeld: 27:02
Yeah. And then and then, depending on the candidate’s background, we’ll have candidates that get that, that understand that we’re supposed to like one. This money isn’t theirs. They’ve raised it. Yeah.
And the intent is for the money to the people who are donating this because they want you to win and therefore do what you need to do to win. Other folks sort of can’t. They can’t separate those two things. So they’ll they’ll be they’ll feel like they should be saving it. There’s still a saving mentality.
And it’s not like the consultants are saying spend to spend for spend sake. But like to your point, if you lose and you have $250,000 left in the bank, there’s a lot of oh, woe like what ifs. What should we have been doing differently? So yeah, it’s a very, very different beast. Fortunately, there’s a lot more software now that’s much better about, you know, predicting budgets and doing cash flow based on that unique scenario, which is the, you know, the exact opposite of what most businesses would be. But, you know, the goal is to get to zero. And can you, can you do the lever spend appropriately month by month.
John Corcoran: 27:56
And there’s this weird thing with these elections now where like, something might get in the news and then a bunch of online donations come in and you couldn’t have predicted that thing that got in the news at the last minute, a week before the election. It gets a bunch of online donations.
Josh Grossfeld: 28:10
Yep. And which which is, you know, can be problematic too, is like, you know, you get those last two weeks of spend, those big bumps that come in based on something that happened online or some viral moment, like, how do you execute that? How do you spend that? And so that’s where, you know, direct mail doesn’t have much of an opportunity there. But digital and television obviously kind of plus up those and hopefully to do more there.
John Corcoran: 28:29
Yeah yeah. Now you made a business decision for the company we talked about earlier. How, you know, initially you’ve eliminated 50% of the potential clients from hiring you because we’re a two party system here in the United States for the most part. And so, you know, if you’re not going to be hired by the Republicans, you’re only being hired by the Democrats. That’s basically, you know, half right there. But you also made a decision to not just limit yourself to the moderates or the progressives, but to be broader. So talk a little bit about that decision.
Josh Grossfeld: 28:58
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, there’s this idea of like the big tent party and we really sort of believe that. And also we have folks that live all across the country. So, you know, the San Francisco Democrat could be very different from a midwest Iowa Democrat. And so we really pride ourselves on, you know, being intentional about working for the candidate in the districts that we’re in.
And so we’ve elected folks everywhere from like Pramila Jayapal in Seattle to John Bel Edwards in Louisiana, and everyone in between, really sort of with this idea that the work that we do is about getting in, getting to know who the voters are. You know, what those target audiences are, who our candidates are, and being reflective of their voice and what they need in those districts versus sort of some broad spectrum, you know, ideology within the party.
John Corcoran: 29:40
Yeah. And is it hard if you’re like, say you’re going up against a local consultant who knows the industry, knows the area and you’re, you know, talking to the candidate and you’re saying, well, we have a formula that works in any area. But you know, the locals are saying, well, you don’t know this district. Is that a difficult conversation to have?
Josh Grossfeld: 30:00
That is a very common conversation in nearly every campaign we’re in is like we do things differently. Here is like what every campaign does. And there’s some truth to that. Oftentimes that’s more about what happens on the ground. Right.
It’s like what are the meetings that you have to have locally to get, you know, X, Y or Z folks on board. That’s then going to mean that you have the 100 supporters come out come out because they can open up their volunteer army to do you know, the field operations for you oftentimes is a little less about sort of the actual communications program because because ultimately, you know, communicating with voters is communicating with the voters. And as long as you’re listening to what’s being said on the ground from the voters and from the candidates, and you’re speaking authentically and they’re staying true to who they are and to their district. It’s inconsequential whether you know, you’re you’re local or not. But we also have mostly local folks. So again, I’m the only person based in DC. Everyone else is sort of out in the States, and I think that proves pretty helpful for us as well.
John Corcoran: 30:53
Yeah. What? So when the pandemic hit in 2020, what was going through your mind at that period of time?
Josh Grossfeld: 31:01
It was terrifying. I mean, particularly from from we were getting hit from all sides as a political direct mail firm. You know, one where there’s going to be elections. Two, was the post office going to deliver anything? Three if you recall, there was a time when, like, people weren’t touching their mail because they thought it so like where people interact with the things that we’re doing.
And then fourth was like, oh no, there’s no more paper left because all these paper mills shut down. And when they did ramp back up, they weren’t doing paper products like for print. They were doing it for packaging. So a lot of our mills shut down during the pandemic. And when they reopened, they were creating boxes instead of paper.
And so there’s actually a huge glut or a huge, you know, scarcity of paper. So we had to make a business decision. We went and got a loan and we bought essentially futures of paper and hedged there and bought a whole bunch of paper from the paper mills to hold for that cycle that we were able to service our clients, and it ended up paying off. And we were able to do our work for our clients and ended up actually being able to help out a lot of our competitors who hadn’t done that.
John Corcoran: 32:05
And how scary was that decision? Yeah. Wait, you helped your competitors who hadn’t done it?
Josh Grossfeld: 32:12
Yeah. So they had some folks just hadn’t planned like that or just didn’t have, you know, the, the, the funds to sort of help execute on that. So, you know, if folks came to us, you know, one of the things that I’ve always prided myself on in the industry is. Is being sort of someone who you’re competitive, but you’re not to the point of sort of like you’re trying to take someone out. Right?
And so, like, I think your, your own ethics and your own morality and sort of your integrity is key no matter what you do. So we always try to sort of, you know, be that person that helps folks out. And so sometimes that meant it was a competitor that needed some, some, some paper. We pushed it over other times, you know, they weren’t able to service at all. So like they just sent that client over to us for us to finish the job.
It was a terrifying thing to do because one, it’s already hard enough to explain to a bank what the political industry looks like and the fact that how we make our money and then secondly, to like, then tell them that we need money for paper.
John Corcoran: 33:06
Yeah.
Josh Grossfeld: 33:07
Actual physical paper that’s going to be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. Yeah. It was, it was a whole nother level of conversation to try to explain to a.
John Corcoran: 33:14
Bank, because there’s probably still warehouses of masks and hand sanitizer that didn’t get fully utilized. Absolutely.
Josh Grossfeld: 33:21
Yeah. So it was fun. But, you know, we got through it. Probably had one of our better years, honestly. And learning kind of forced us to make some, some pretty strategic changes to the way we operate the business that long term are beneficial for us in terms of getting a little tighter, a little grittier on production.
And then really dive in head first and sort of how do we operate as a fully remote company? Versus before we, you know, we were remote but had certain offices where people worked in person, etc., so really turned on the entirely fully remote operations from that point on.
John Corcoran: 33:58
Yeah. And partway into the pandemic, you started another company, an e-commerce platform. Talk a little bit about what inspired that.
Josh Grossfeld: 34:05
Yeah. So, you know, leading up to that 18 to 19 we had done, you know, we do print work. So we do direct mail, but we also do anything that prints. And so oftentimes clients would have us do, you know, t-shirts or yard signs or things that were like more merchandise. And, you know, looking at the books after 18 and 19, I started to see this line item of like non-direct mail kind of creep up a little bit.
And my partner and I both looked at each other like that. That might be something there. And then, you know, as Covid hit, you know, all of a sudden people going and picking up the yard signs wasn’t a thing any longer. And so we had already had some established relationships for creating yard signs and whatnot and just essentially created a virtual yard sign captaining, but needed a site to be able to do that distribution. So really quickly just sort of pivoted, created good stock as like a secondary company for us to do e-commerce and merchandise and kind of grew from there, so became its fully owned own company.
So we do, you know, a platform that does sales tax, full federal elections, compliance reporting. And allows any, any nonprofit, any campaign, any business really, to set up their own store at no cost and sell their t-shirts, their hats, their yard signs, etc.. And it, you know, had a need for COVID at the time. But you know since then it has really proven to be a really valuable asset for a lot of these campaigns that want to take care, take advantage of a viral moment, but don’t know if it’s going to happen yet.
John Corcoran: 35:27
Yeah. I know that you as a company are focused on not just political clients campaigns, but also corporate or businesses. Talk a little bit about the lessons and how you can apply that into the business world.
Josh Grossfeld: 35:43
Yeah, I mean, the uniqueness about, you know, political campaigns is, you know, depending on the district. But for most places, you know, a victory is 50% plus one. So if you get 49% market share, you failed, which from a business standpoint is like an incredibly high threshold.
John Corcoran: 35:57
Incredibly. Yeah.
Josh Grossfeld: 35:59
So you know, we’ve we’ve taken, you know, particularly in direct mail, there’s this idea of sort of like targeting and accountability and sort of tracking and funnels that, you know, can really apply well to companies and nonprofits. And other businesses that might have wanted to influence public opinion, but not necessarily through electoral. So, you know, we do a lot of grass tops work for, you know, organizations that want to influence public opinion on zoning or want to influence public opinion on a certain county board issue, etc., and are able to come in and use a lot of what we learned on campaigns and apply that to those as well. So, you know, the messaging, the targeting, the fact that you can, you know, really have ten different unique messages going out to different audiences with different calls to action, click through on QR codes and be able to sort of really follow through and have, you know, a series of communications and leveling up in the funnel that, you know, a lot of lot of companies already do, but may not have done it with like the political mindset.
John Corcoran: 36:52
And yeah, I mean, I, I actually am fascinated by this topic because I think it’s very popular to talk about how the lessons from business should be used in government. But not many people talk about the lessons that can come from campaigns and government and politics and be applied in the business world. So I think it’s really interesting that you’re doing that.
Josh Grossfeld: 37:11
Yeah. And from an entrepreneurial standpoint, running a political consulting shop is like, you know, every two years, essentially, I’m running a startup.
John Corcoran: 37:17
So it’s amazing.
Josh Grossfeld: 37:18
Yeah, I feel like I have like at least, you know, five cycles worth of startup lessons that I’ve learned along the way.
John Corcoran: 37:24
Yeah. I don’t know how you sleep at night, but more power to you. All right.
Josh Grossfeld: 37:29
Meditation.
John Corcoran: 37:30
Yeah. That’s great. All right. Want to wrap up with my gratitude question? So I’m a big fan of practicing gratitude, and I’m also a big fan of giving our guests a little bit of space to give a shout out to any particular peers or contemporaries who’ve helped them in their journey. Who would you want to acknowledge?
Josh Grossfeld: 37:46
Yeah, so I mean, one of my very first bosses when I moved to DC was a guy named Chris Cooper. So he became a partner, actually, that same cycle at the direct mail firm I was at, and I was one of his assistants. And the level of sort of responsibility he gave me and sort of latitude to sort of learn and fail in a safety net was just phenomenal. He really gave me, you know, the confidence that, like, I knew what I was doing and, like, I could do this. Let me, you know, sit in on things and learn from him in a way that was, you know, really, really, really incredible.
And since then has, you know, continued to help me with getting a job right after that. And since then, as I started my own company, always being a really wonderful, you know, sounding board and, you know, referral of business and just someone that I can kind of count on to, to talk to. So he’s been a wonderful partner on this path. And then his mentor Rich Schlackman also has been, you know, tremendous. So both those gentlemen have been phenomenal and really helpful for my career.
John Corcoran: 38:45
And I know that you also have been active in the entrepreneurs organization, which I am as well. What has that been like for you being around other entrepreneurs who are not in the campaign world?
Josh Grossfeld: 38:56
Without exaggeration, a lifesaver. So I joined that in the middle of the pandemic when we were making lists of sort of like, how does this company stay afloat? And so it was a very lonely time. And so to have, you know, that my forum and to have those other groups of entrepreneurs who are also going through other struggles and not feeling alone and having other people to say, oh, I’ve been on that roller coaster before, and hearing stories about how they’ve come out of that roller coaster was, was just phenomenal. And then since that time, I’ve gotten, you know, far more involved on the board now trying to, you know, do a lot more things involving both, you know, the, the, the local, but the national and the resources there to entrepreneurs that are just, are just great, I couldn’t speak.
John Corcoran: 39:37
Josh, this has been great. Where can people go to learn more about you and learn more about agency?
Josh Grossfeld: 39:42
Yeah. So agencystrategies.com is our direct mail firm. And then goodstockcompany.com is our website for e-commerce. And I’m available on LinkedIn as well. So I really appreciate the time John.
Outro: 39:52
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.