Kael Campbell 10:43
Yeah, so I mean, anytime I was working, I was thinking about why are people in their jobs. But even when I was cycling, you know, in meeting people, whether it was there at a hotel, or they were running a service business, or another entrepreneur that I met on on the plane, I’m always like, Okay, why are people doing what they’re doing? That was always something that intrigued me. And being able to be off and have the time to think when you’re touring like, there was no podcast in your you know, you didn’t even have an iPhone, you might have had a Walkman, but I mean, literally are hundreds of kilometers, hundreds of miles of just just thinking, only paddling and exploring and just really absorbing things. So no, I didn’t have an aha moment. But when I came back, I was like, Man, I do want to be free. Right? And I want to help people. And I do want to go on a on a journey. And definitely entrepreneurship, when it came back was big on what I was looking for. And I’ve really thought about, okay, what, where can I have the most impact. And I’d known that in my jobs. Recruitment had been a small part of it. But it also been a big spark of joy, right? When you get that manager in place, and the team is happy. And you can see this stress levels come down on people. Great, great experience.
John Corcoran 12:11
But as you said, you this had been a very small part of what you’ve done. And it’s not like you peel it off from being partnered a different recruiting agency, and then start a new one. So you knew exactly how to do it. So I’m kind of a little fascinated by this. But what was the those early days? Like? Were you kind of figuring out everything from how we price our services to where I get clients to hire me to do this? What was that? What was the early days like?
Kael Campbell 12:38
Yeah, it’s interesting, because I didn’t have a preset idea of this is a way it should be right. So I didn’t learn from one one person, definitely the market survey was always key, you know, getting on the phone and calling people and saying, Hey, are you paying for a service? Now? What does it look like? What are you happy with? And really doing that market research was was key, but also being able to build a playbook because it was really in flux, like 2004. We didn’t have smartphones yet. I can’t remember what year the iPhone launch. But I do remember that. And yeah, yeah. Oh, seven, I remember when the first candidate had their smartphone, and they were calling me, and they’re like, I’m on your website, but I can’t send you my resume. I’m like, Oh, this is gonna change things, right? Because it used to be that, you know, people would email in only before then it was fax and, you know, we still have filing cabinets, right. So there was this transition to a, you know, a new era. And I was always able to think, you know, I wasn’t set in an old way in, in HR, we used to do something called post and pray, posted a job on a website or in the newspaper and pray that somebody would apply. And when you go into recruitment and headhunting, you’re really going out, find the people who are currently employed, and not really looking. Right, so that 30 40% of the market is really who you’re going after. And I didn’t have kind of any preset way, oh, I’ve got a cold call people and say, Hey, you got to take my call. Because I’m an expert in this right. I had to develop my own way of cold calling, closing potential candidates and clients. So it was a good experience to kind of have a bit of understanding of what people needed, but not say, Hey, this is the way it’s going to be because in 2004 A lot of the top people in the industry are trainers are still trainers. 2023. And I’m like, I don’t think they’ve innovated that much. And we got to innovate every single year, right? Yeah, it’s part of being an entrepreneur.
John Corcoran 14:44
How much does technology change the game now? I mean, now, I wonder even if there’s some people who don’t have a resume because they just say, well, it’s on the internet, it’s on LinkedIn, or I have an about page or something like that. And, and then of course, there’s multimedia either video, you can do zoom interviews, how is technology affecting the, you know,
Kael Campbell 15:05
the profession? Oh, I mean, huge, huge changes, you know, everything from AI to, to voice and video, one of my team has just done a beautiful presentation of of candidates who, you know, probably three years ago, it would have taken just a ton of time, but things like Canva. And smartphones, just video is getting so much better that if you can’t say it in one or two pages, really one page, you can say it in video and have it instantaneously right in front of your target employer, right? So with video and audio, huge, huge changes. I actually don’t even want my clients to be reading a resume on their smartphone. So we actually send them the person’s voice, right, like, right out of the horse’s mouth, right, because if somebody is looking for a great person on the PR or the podcasting front, you can send a resume. But if you can send somebody that voice and hear, you know, the ins and outs of whatever their areas of expertise is, it’s so much better than us translating it or having it fit on a resume. So yeah, there’s with video and audio, there’s so many better ways to bring people information that they can consume it the way they want, right? Because,
John Corcoran 16:24
yeah, the end professions you’re working with our manufacturing, mining, construction, engineering, these are trades, these are not, I imagine a lot of the roles are not used to multimedia production quality, stuff like that. So how much are you having to coach up the candidates that you’re working with on on how to present Well, in an audio file that you’re going to be sending to a potential employer?
Kael Campbell 16:51
Yeah, that’s something we got to do every day. Fortunately, I mean, things are just so much better, right? The amount of people with high speed internet connections, or a good camera phone, or a good video, phone on their, on their laptop, or camera on their laptop, it’s so prevalent, but you know, we have to be able to edit and embed stuff and really make it consumable for our clients. And, you know, there are AI tools, right? Like if somebody says, Oh, I need this niche of skills, we don’t need to be experts in it, we can use AI to help us figure out what the good questions are. Maybe find alternative job titles, because what somebody is in California might be titled, completely different in Philadelphia, or in Florida and Miami, because even though like we we’ve got a big country, people have different names for the same job title, just in the next state, right? So there’s lots of things we can do to kind of make it work and really do the transition. And yeah, we got to coach people, we do have some aspects that we send people in do it yourself, but also I expect my team to be able to like, say, hey, you know, the way you’re approaching this, I’m fine with it. But if we’re doing a panel in front of four or five decision makers, you’re gonna have to up your game, right, like, right, what might have worked at company z, where you’re working now is not going to work at company. Why? Where do you want to be where you’re going to get that raise and have those promotional opportunities?
John Corcoran 18:24
Right, right. Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting how much you can, you know, connect with people over that, like I just got back from you know, you and I are both in Entrepreneurs Organization. I just got back from this EMP program back East. A bunch of the people there I’d never seen in person before, but I felt like I knew them pretty well, because we’ve connected over video previously. One interesting observation I just want to reflect on for you. When I was there, a couple of people reflected to me on the fact that when I was growing up, my father was a TV news reporter. So he worked in media, television, and here I find myself in new media working in the podcast world, and Coalville reflected on that, that here you are, you’re working in media, you are looking for a diamond in the rough, literally working for mining companies. And where you are shared with us that as a kid, you’re going on doing that as kid how much you think that affected you and ended up kind of determining the the profession that you ended up in?
Kael Campbell 19:22
Yeah, I use that analogy of finding a gold seam. And that’s an idea that you might find a little crack in the rock with a little bit of gold in it. But if you follow that seam, it could widen up, or you can continue it and really, really find a lot of what you’re looking for. And I get that we we always have had a toll free number on our website, right? And I would get a call and talk to somebody and like within 30 seconds, I’m like, Oh, this is exactly who I want. But they don’t have a resume. They’re in the middle of traveling and aqueous reach out. And the change that phone call into a seam, not just one guy, but 10 or 15. Guys, is is really a talent that, you know, I think it’s got an analogy compared to what my dad used to do. But it’s also a new new way of mining for talent. And, and really were managed to take, you know, over 10 Guys from, you know, a company like Florida Power and Light and transition them to our employer, right, and it, you know, we charge a lot for what, what we do, but that actually amount of money they make compared to what a recruiter makes is insane, they do really well. And, you know, we’re helping them get better lives. I think one of them recently, they let me know, he’s made an additional million dollars in the last 10 years at his new employer. Wow. And, you know, really, we mind that seem, I got the phone call. And I’m like, okay, great, let’s connect, we managed to replace one person, but then we turn that into, like, 13 or 14 other people. And that’s really part of what a good recruiter does not think of it as a one time transaction. It’s like, I’m gonna have a relationship with this person, and maybe everybody they know, or one or two people they know, right? So it’s really a, an analogy, I like to think of is mining that gold seam and finding multiple people. Because even if you’re just recruiting one person, you’re like, oh, what does your wife do? You’re thinking about? Is she thinking about making a move? And, and there’s something called a twofer. You know, two for one, right? You end up placing two people when you’re really only recruiting one. And that happens a lot. Because I used to be people didn’t meet online, I remember my wife online, but a lot of people used to meet at work, or within their industry group, right? So you’d be more likely to place if you’re a medical recruiter to place a husband and wife. Right, right, if you’re in medical recruitment, and that used to be so so common.
John Corcoran 22:04
Yeah, or I’ve seen multiple times you see where someone’s like a professor, a husband, wife, or professor, and they want to move to a different university. It’s a two for one like they really, one, the other one has to get a job at the same university, or at least in the same city, which is not easy to do.
Kael Campbell 22:19
Yeah, yeah. But you’re probably best suited to do it with a recruiter, because if you’re in the educational and medical space, they’ll be able to connect with all the decision makers, where the individual if they were just looking at a job, they might be like, Oh, I’m gonna check on the website, see if anything’s available, and is that hidden job where it’s like somebody’s going to quit has quit, or they’re thinking about adding budget, and you can get that person in front of the decision maker. And it makes a big difference and it saves the placement. Right, right. Right.
John Corcoran 22:53
So, you know, there are other more broad generic recruiting firms out there. Just looking at what you do, it looks very niched by comparison, right manufacturing, mining, construction, and yet those each in themselves can be large industries construction in North America. Huge, right? Mining North America huge. Is that attention for you to to kind of like determine like, do we stay in like, for example, just not just manufacturing, but like some specific type of manufacturing versus being open to opportunities in these other industries?
Kael Campbell 23:31
Yeah, it’s interesting, right now, there’s a kind of shift in the economy, like employment so high, but some companies are really slashed budgets, whether it’s for recruitment or marketing, whatever it is, and we’re fortunate that we service multiple industries. So some of our industry groups are down, cuz they’re, they’re faced with cost overruns. You know, they might have been planning to build a tech Park and the tech industry is, is pulling back, right? So there’s shifts, but our candidate base can often shift as well, right. So a project manager, who’s worked in mining or construction, or manufacturing has a lot of transferable skills, where it’s if they were to make a jump to high tech, some of their skills would transfer but not easily between those industries. So those industries always have some movement of employment between them. And it’s a really good context where if it’s, it’s either running 24/7 or, you know, there’s mechanical parts to it. construction material inputs, that’s something we service where if somebody says, Hey, can you help me with my recruitment firm or my consulting firm or my digital marketing agency? I’ll be like, I could probably help. You know, I’ve got some expertise, but not as deep in expertise that would help those other niches that were really focused on.
John Corcoran 24:56
Yeah, yeah. No, you had the his company for about 20 years now, no doubt you’ve seen some ups and downs. Probably, oh 708, that time period where there was an economic downturn, the pandemic in March of 2020. What was that like for you during the the downturn of the pandemic? And of course, we’re recording this and 2023. Very weird economy right now, as you alluded to a second ago, but what are some of those? What’s that been like for you during these kinds of downturns, especially running a recruiting firm? Because, you know, I’m sure when times are great, they’re great. When times are down, and no one’s hiring, that can be a struggle.
Kael Campbell 25:35
Yeah, it’s definitely it’s difficult from a team perspective. And individually. We’re fortunate that we’re diversified. So we have orders, which is good, but those orders are hard to fill. Right now, there’s a new minimum wage, I like to say it’s about 80,000 is really what it takes to get people to switch jobs right now. So in past recessions, there were mass layoffs, but right now, we’re at high employment levels. In most areas, there’s some pockets of unemployment, some professions that are that are hurting, but it’s really an interesting time. And we’re also finding, there’s clients that are really benefit, you know, the ROI that that improvement in their balance sheet by finding that one person is still there, right? So we’re still able to get the orders. And from a team perspective, it’s hard, right? When you own us, you’re expecting to knock things out of the park, right? Whenever you get an order from a client, right? And recruitment, it’s not like that your, your candidates that we have, we have 130,000 that we’ve worked with in the past. They don’t all want to move. And right now, because of mortgage rates, high cost of rentals, even less want to move, right. So there’s, there’s this resistance to switch jobs with tough on a team. But it’s a great opportunity to say, hey, what can we do better, right? Like, we’re not flying out, you know, getting 10 new job orders from a client. So we’re figuring out what we can do better, where we can add in maybe some automation, but not make our service worse, right? There’s a I think, a bigger rush when when sales are down to say, Oh, can we know? Can we do all these multipoint outreaches and outsource our sales process? Or like, we don’t have to be that? I don’t, I’d say reactionary, but we can make improvements that really help our clients. And we’ve got the capacity. You know, cash flow is a bit of a pain right now. But, you know, we have great long-term customers, we’re continuing to service and, you know, I’m probably twice as thankful for the smaller words as I might have been last year. But you know, that’s, that’s the ups and downs of business. Right? Yeah.
John Corcoran 27:47
And then, do you think because of the industries that you’re in that you’re, I don’t know if immune is the right word, but insulated from this new onslaught of technology, everyone’s talking about AI? And how is that going to affect every industry under the sun? Or do you think that mining, and construction manufacturing, these areas are going to be dramatically impacted by AI and other new technologies? And, maybe it is already because, maybe, they’re already hiring an AI expert to come in and help with the digital transformation of sorts.
Kael Campbell 28:19
Yeah, it’s interesting, I think there’s gonna be changes. But the big thing is, a lot of these industries require something physical, right? So you can make improvements, but really that physical component, you know, things don’t even need to be moved. And as much as we say, you know, there’s going to be self-driving cars. No, we heard there were going to be self-driving cars two years ago, one, four years ago, six years ago. But it takes a long time to get even something as repetitive as driving and turning left and driving on a highway, right. And when you’re taking a mining environment, there is going to be automation that happens. But it’s hard. It’s really hard. And it’s going to take more and more inputs of technology where it’s not just going to write this and everything’s in a run. It’s a mining environment or construction environment, it gets dirty, you know, sensors get covered, you know, they have to have more and more automation that makes sure that automation works and those systems so I think we’re pretty well insulated. Mining is one of the areas, especially on the driver’s side. We’re not involved in driver recruitment, but they’re looking at opportunities to have automated trucks. They’ve got automated drove rigs, but then you still need somebody who fixes and maintains those. Somebody who’s an expert in programming them, somebody who’s an expert in figuring out why the Wi-Fi isn’t working, when you’re, you know, exploring, you know, 1000s of kilometers away from a big city, right? So I think, you know, there’s going to be an impact. But the big, big thing that people are working on is the data, how can we make large transformational improvements, and the big companies are trying but you know, their budgets, the budget has shifted, they might cut some of their team members. And hopefully, those team members will bounce back and start a new startup that will help service that industry better, because, construction, manufacturing, and mining, all need automation and wasted ways to do things better and cheaper as well, because everything is more expensive than it used to be, as you all know, right now.
John Corcoran 30:39
Yeah. Now, a lot of times when you see a company has been around for 20 years, and Sony has been in their industry for a while, you see when that technology comes along, people kind of stick their head in the sand, or they keep on doing things the way that they are, they say that’s not going to impact me, you actually have gone the other direction. In terms of video production. You and I have talked previously about embracing YouTube, which is the number two search engine out there. It’s a massive channel, you have a new Hiring and Firing YouTube channel, and you built some other hobby podcasts, not podcasts, but hobby YouTube channels that you built, as well. So talk a little bit about that, how you’ve kind of embraced that from a recruiting standpoint.
Kael Campbell 31:22
Yeah, so I’ve always been big on video, but kind of making that leap. And making it a habit has always been a bit of a challenge. So but really, in the last year and a half, two years, I’ve been not only using that, that video camera, we’re all carrying in our pocket, but getting a little bit better at producing video using other technology and trying out drones. And yeah, I mean, YouTube is an amazing, amazing search engine. And people are looking for things, right? So some entrepreneurs, I know that we were talking, they’re like, oh, and I’ll tell I mean, you really help people, you know, entrepreneurs figure out how to save money, and you know how to hire better? And I’m like, Yeah, I should be kind of sharing that more. And there are lots of fluffy recruiters on YouTube. And I was like, Oh, how can I come up with something that helps service my clients? And I chose Hiring and Firing and somebody’s like, oh, firing, That’s harsh. I’m like, perfect. You know, you gotta have a bit of a hard edge to kind of break through the clutter, and be able to talk about things like firing, right, you know, when there’s up swings and down swings. And even when things are going well, it’s okay to transition people out of your organization, when it is firing, you can dress it up and say we parted ways, you know, I gotta give people a reference, I’m always happy to give almost anybody a reference, because I believe that there’s an employer out there for everybody just might not be me and might not be one of my clients, right? So YouTube allows us to give those messages to people and them to search it out. Right? If they’re looking for a way to transition out of employ a decision of whether or not that conditioning to somebody on you can speak to that on YouTube. And just the audience’s breath on YouTube is amazing, right? Lots of people are gonna be watching Mr. Beast and spending their time being entertained. But also, if they see something that hits one of the other passions, or one of their struggles, they’ll watch it there as well. Right? So I think it’s great. And its SEO components are, are amazing. Because of search engine optimization, you can do your website, but if you have a video that pops up, and somebody’s looking for more than like, a one-paragraph explanation, they’ll probably click on the YouTube link to listen to it and watch it rather than read through and scroll on their phone. Yeah,
John Corcoran 33:47
yeah. All right, last question. So I’m a big fan of gratitude. I’m grateful to you for giving us your time here today to share some of your strategies, ideas, and wisdom, who would you shout out to and thank them for helping you particularly love to hear about peers and contemporaries who have helped you along the way in your journey. Who would you want to thank?
Kael Campbell 34:12
I definitely have a group coaching into COVID that all high room was on hold, you know, I think we had maybe 10 orders, but they were very weak. Let’s put it that way. And I had been connecting with people in the entrepreneurs organization who are recruiters and I was able to kind of activate that network and build a group of about 12 entrepreneurs, who we really came together and said, you know, where is our expertise in recruitment and headhunting and how can we share that and get through this right. So Dave Bacon and Steven Ziegler at two amazing AORs just came back from Colorado. They hosted us in Venice. Very unveil, and really just amazing entrepreneurs, one on the tech recruitment side in the tech space, really built into that, that space, Dave Bacon. And then Steven Ziegler just amazing on the executive search side, can really find those leaders make sure they’re a good fit for a company. And really just amazing athletes and family men who I really respect. And yeah, it was great to spend more time in the State of Colorado because I have family there. And it was great to kind of get immersed. See their businesses more and understand kind of their struggles and growth opportunities. And yeah, see them as athletes and family men as well as it was was great experience. Hey, oh, this
John Corcoran 35:48
has been such a pleasure. Where can people go to learn more about you and connect with you check out and read more about Redtail recruiting and your Hiring and Firing YouTube channel.
Kael Campbell 35:58
Yeah, so definitely LinkedIn is easy to find me Kael Campbell. But also Yeah, just Hiring and Firing on YouTube, are two great ways to kind of see me or get a hold of me. I’m on everything else as well. Act as but really LinkedIn is kind of the number one source but if you’re not on there, you’re probably on YouTube, which is great. All right. I’ve also got FMB fishing means business which is my my passion. You know, I’m gonna be out there catching salmon, halibut tuna and stuff and, and there’s a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners who are into that as well. So find me there.
John Corcoran 36:29
Okay, well, thanks so much.
Kael Campbell 36:33
Thanks, John.
Chad Franzen 36:41
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.