John Corcoran: 16:23
And why did you separate those out? Like why? Why did they become two different companies?
Chanie Gluck: 16:29
I wanted to help other billing companies like mine scale the way I scaled and have this 24 hour service like I had. I thought I had like this secret sauce that really helped me build my first company, and I just wanted to share it with other people. And so it really started off with other building companies, and I felt like I couldn’t. I didn’t want to be an individual doctor anymore. Like doctors, it was the biggest pain. Like they were just very difficult.
Their reimbursements are going down and the only people they could be upset at are their billers, when really it’s the insurance companies are just paying them less, and they just have to see more patients in order to be more profitable. So it was just a hard place to be as a billing company owner when like you’re being harassed by these doctors where the billing companies were entrepreneurs, they had a different mindset. And it was just such a joy working with other entrepreneurs that it’s where I actually prefer to spend my time.
John Corcoran: 17:30
And by the way, how did you make that transition from, you know, initially it’s you in an office doing it yourself, then you hire people, you’re in your parents office, then you get your own office. But then how did you make that transition to offshoring to India? And how did you figure that out? Because that could be a tough adjustment for a lot of companies to figure out how to manage people remotely. You mentioned people watching Netflix.
You know, there’s the fear that if I offshore to people that are in another country, I won’t have visibility over what they’re working on, whether they’re working.
Chanie Gluck: 18:03
Well. In India, they’re definitely not watching Netflix. They’re very focused on. And there’s a bunch of levels of supervision and tons of layers of management. I was in London dating someone and he said to me, you know, whatever you’re doing right now, you can do in India. And we put in a bunch of inquiries online. This is again before social media. This is 2005.
John Corcoran: 18:31
Oh very. Early.
Chanie Gluck: 18:33
Yeah. Yeah. So. So I’ve been offshoring for the last 20 years now, but it started at five. One company came down to New York to my parents’ house office. They, like, met with me, offered me a free trial. I was like, wow, this is amazing. People are working while we’re sleeping. This is like the best thing ever. And so I started offshoring then and then.
John Corcoran: 18:55
And, they probably specialized in medical billing. It wasn’t just like a general VA that you had to train everything soup to nuts. Okay.
Chanie Gluck: 19:01
Yeah. And particularly in this city in India that I, that I started offshoring, they’ve been offshoring from that’s where the Mecca of medical billing is in this particular city. So they really took on this call center medical billing space. So there’s a lot of talent there. And then in 07I started something.
Somebody reached out to me randomly. He was buying billing companies, and he needed someone to help him move the work from the US billing companies to India. So he hired me as a consultant then and I did this work.
John Corcoran: 19:36
Is it oh seven? So you hadn’t been offshoring for too long, but somehow someone got wind of that. You had this expertise?
Chanie Gluck: 19:43
Yeah, because I’d gone to India. Someone told them to reach out to me, that I knew again, this is the the the the.
John Corcoran: 19:50
They were small.
Chanie Gluck: 19:50
World thing, right?
John Corcoran: 19:51
Yeah, yeah.
Chanie Gluck: 19:54
Yeah. I was using a vendor in oh five and I was having trouble with this vendor because the key people were leaving and starting their own thing, and it started getting a little tricky. But this guy reached out to me. We ended up flying to India. I started our own thing, just my company and his company. We built that for 400 people.
John Corcoran: 20:12
Wow.
Chanie Gluck: 20:13
But then in 2014, he did a roll up and moved all his stuff to Pakistan. So all these 400 people were now going to be out of jobs. So I didn’t have the intention of starting on my own. But I was like, you know what? This is like a sign. This is an opportunity to just start my own operation. And that’s really how it started.
John Corcoran: 20:31
So and you and at the same time you have four children in five years. And you’re starting this new company. Talk about a lot on your plate.
Chanie Gluck: 20:40
Well, I will say for the first few years of 4D Global, it was when I was on cruise control. I did spend a tremendous amount of time with my kids. I have no regrets. I didn’t fly to India until my youngest was one year old. So.
And that was 2018, I would say was the first time I went there. So I ran the company for three years without even going there, just using my contacts and getting things set up. But there are times, you know, in, in a mom’s life where you got to put it on neutral and focus on your family, and there are times that you could step on the gas. And so I think it’s up to everyone in their life to know what season you want to cruise and when you want to go all in. And so yeah.
John Corcoran: 21:26
You’re an interesting anomaly because you were an only child. You come from an upper income family, yet you are driven to start your own company. And you also had four children.
Chanie Gluck: 21:39
Well, I was an only child for 13 years. My parents had my two sisters and my brother. When I was 13, 14 and 18.
John Corcoran: 21:49
So the same.
Chanie Gluck: 21:50
Set of parents.
John Corcoran: 21:51
Really.
Chanie Gluck: 21:51
From a family of four.
John Corcoran: 21:53
That’s unusual.
Chanie Gluck: 21:54
And growing up as an only child, like my dream was to have siblings like. So I didn’t want to. I wanted to give my kids siblings. I thought the best gift a parent can give their child is other humans that they can corroborate with.
John Corcoran: 22:10
As a parent of four kids, I’m not sure my kids would agree with that statement at all times. But yeah, I agree with it, but I’m not sure they would always agree with it.
Chanie Gluck: 22:18
Look, we’re not going to be here forever, so they should have each other when we’re no.
John Corcoran: 22:21
Longer.
Chanie Gluck: 22:22
Here, right?
John Corcoran: 22:23
That’s a great point. Yes. For sure, for sure. So you sell the company you focus on on 4D Global and and now you’ve also expanded your thought leadership and you’ve started a couple of podcasts. So talk a little bit about the rationale behind podcasting in a sexy industry like medical billing.
Chanie Gluck: 22:42
Right. Well, my first podcast was Growing Global because I was trying to get over the objection of offshoring. People were very anti offshoring in 2020. And so a friend of mine and I were talking, he’s like, you’ve got to do this. You’ve got to do podcasts. He’s like you got to do it.
I’m like, who am I to start a podcast? So I feel like he gave me the push. He even came up with the name. And so I’m thankful to him for pushing me to do it. And I made a list of all the people I want to have on.
And I was going to showcase entrepreneurs that were leveraging the global economy. And so I did that for a while. And then I realized the power of thought leadership and the ability to talk to people that you wouldn’t ordinarily would never take your call. But if you have a podcast, they would talk to you. And so I decided to start leaders in medical billing because I felt like it was a lonely space, especially Billers.
They’re very isolated. They’re sitting in front of their computer for many hours. They’re usually quite introverted, and the only time they’re getting a lot of value is when they go to a conference. And most of them don’t even go to these conferences. But there’s like a once a year, two day conference.
Like, how deep could the conversations get? So I felt like this was a way to create community. But before I did the podcast, I was doing monthly webinars. That was how it started, because again, I was really trying to create community. But I thought, you know, the webinars, you have to be there at a certain time, like you have to log in and, you know, podcasts you can listen to while you’re on the treadmill.
So that’s really how I shifted from webinars to podcasts. Now I’m doing a podcast and I’m back to doing monthly webinars because there’s power in both. But I love podcasts myself. I listen to it all the time, and I really am very curious about people. And I think you have to have a certain interest and curiosity, you know, to people like you do. Right? You truly enjoy what you do.
John Corcoran: 24:49
Yeah, I’m endlessly fascinated by hearing people’s stories, and I want to hear them over and over again. And that’s what makes it continue to be novel, even 15 years into doing it is there’s always someone else’s story to hear. Yeah. That’s great. How do you overcome the objection? You mentioned that a lot of them are introverted and they don’t get out very often. So do you find it challenging to get people to come onto the show?
Chanie Gluck: 25:12
Yeah. I mean, most of the people that I interview have probably never been on a podcast. Now we’re talking a lot about tech and I. So I feel like, you know, the personalities may be a little bit different because people do want to talk about what they’re doing on a, on a, you know, from a tech perspective. But yeah, it is challenging. And I’ll tell you this.
Sometimes I’ll record a podcast, but if it’s not good and then it’s not engaging, I just won’t drop it. Right. And I’m sure you have that too, right?
Chanie Gluck: 25:44
You have to have a personality of someone that’s engaging and can keep someone’s attention going.
John Corcoran: 25:51
Which is hard too, because sometimes people are not used to this medium. Like anything, you get better at it when you do more of it and you’ve never done it before. Some people struggle with that, right? You know? Yeah.
On the other hand, sometimes people are shocked by me, you know, like someone who’s never been on a podcast before. And so people have never heard their voice, they’ve never heard their stories. And it’s really exciting to hear someone’s stories for the first time, you know, to share their stories. I had someone the other day who I interviewed, another EO member who had never been on a podcast before. And you googled the guy’s name.
You couldn’t find anything out there, nothing out there. And he was like, yeah, you can’t Google me. There’s no SEO out there. I’m like, there is now, you know? And so it was really cool to be able to share his story and to get people past those inhibitions, those, you know, people have reluctance around, like sharing their story, even though to me, I view it as helping others, helping the next generation.
Chanie Gluck: 26:44
Okay, so. You’ll like this. My pitch to people about why they should be on the podcast. And like, it’s free marketing. But I say people only do business with people they know, like and trust. How?
What better way to get people to know, like and trust you? By sharing, by being vulnerable, sharing your story. It’s just a fast track way to get through that process. And then people do business with you. So I’m all about it. I think it’s a fantastic medium.
John Corcoran: 27:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I want to ask you about Covid. So you mentioned that, you know, healthcare care generally is insulated from downturns. Covid was an unusual situation. Take me back to that moment in time.
You know, for you. And then, of course, you also took your family. And you guys ended up going to San Diego for a period of time. What was that period like for you? And was there a lot of fear around whether your company would survive because healthcare was its own animal?
Chanie Gluck: 27:41
So when everyone was doing really bad during Covid, I’m ashamed to say, but our company really thrived because there was so much opportunity in healthcare at the time. I think I had the advantage of Covid only hitting India a couple of months after the US. So I had seen what was happening in the US and I said, I know this is going to happen in India. Let’s be prepared. So we had a whole game plan of what we were going to do to make sure that there were no hiccups in the work, and we were going to continue doing what we were doing.
And so where my, like other BPOs in India were shutting down and firing people, I was on the contrary, I said, okay, let’s figure out how to get everybody very strong internet at home. Let’s figure out how we’re going to get computers to everyone’s houses, like, let’s figure out how we’re going to do this. And I have to say, my team and the logistics were amazing. And we were really able to not only keep our current customers really happy, but even acquire more customers during that time.
John Corcoran: 28:51
So it was.
Chanie Gluck: 28:52
Really good for us financially and personally. Thankfully, we were in Arizona and it was. Everything was open. We spent our summer in California, but we had a fantastic experience overall. The schools were not closed for that long and even at the time that the schools were closed, like my daughter, my daughter actually launched a podcast during the time she was like seven. Then, which is funny because her friends are watching it now and it’s like many years later.
She’s now 12, but she was like recording when she was like six, and it was just cute that we did it. And now I’m like, oh, that was a cool thing to do. So a lot of good things happened. I think I’m such an optimist by nature, and I’m always trying to look at every situation like, what is the best? You know what, how can we make the best out of the situation?
How can we thrive during this time? So looking back, I, I look at it I look back at that time, yes, it was frustrating, but a lot of good things came out of it as well. I think people got closer. We focused on the relationships that mattered. We weren’t distracted by all the things that we generally are distracted with, like going out all the time.
John Corcoran: 30:03
And, you.
Chanie Gluck: 30:04
Now, we were just really focused on our immediate family, which, you know, made everybody closer.
John Corcoran: 30:10
I look back, my television in our living room rotates through photos from my photo album, and I see a photo pops up that’s from like a couple of weeks into Covid and we’re like on a hike together as a family or something. Out, in, out, like away from everyone else. And, you know, it’s just there. There is a bit of a nostalgia to that, you know, thinking back on it. Yeah, I want to ask you about it because this is 2025 and everyone’s talking about AI. How do you see AI? And I’m sure you’re thinking about this. How do you see AI affecting your industry and your company?
Chanie Gluck: 30:44
Oh my gosh, like crazy. Like nobody wants to hear, give me more people to solve my problem. Like, give me a piece of technology and solve my problems. So we are launching a tech company in the RCM space. We’re building genetic AI stuff for our customers. It’s very exciting times, but there’s so much out there right now that I think for the consumer, it’s very challenging to like weed through, especially in healthcare tech.
There’s tons of companies popping up every single day, and they’re harassing, you know, all the customers. And I think people are overwhelmed. Some people don’t even have any customers at all.
John Corcoran: 31:23
But so your customers are getting bombarded by these AI companies that don’t have any customers that are trying to sell them on some solution.
Chanie Gluck: 31:30
Yes. Yes, exactly. A lot of these companies have people back, like we’re doing the back end of some of these tech companies with the tech can’t do right. So we’re seeing a lot of that right now. I’m hoping that things kind of settle down, but I’m just using this as an opportunity to create that thought leadership. We have a Substack called RCM Tech Forum, where we’re a few leaders in the industry that are all collaboratively contributing.
We’re trying stuff ourselves. We’re using them like user feedback to tell you what works, what doesn’t, what you should look at, what you shouldn’t, and and really where this is going. So it’s really cool that I have this collaborative group of people in the industry that I respect. We have a very active WhatsApp chat together. We meet every single month and every month we’re bringing new things to the table, evaluating new pieces of technology. So that’s very cool.
John Corcoran: 32:30
That’s a great way to approach it. Get a couple of your peers in the industry that have similar companies and share what you’re, what you’re all like looking at and what tools you’re seeing.
Chanie Gluck: 32:41
Yeah, there’s even an EO outsourcing WhatsApp group. So a bunch of BPOs in the VA, like we’re all we all have a chat going to see what we’re doing. And then there’s a very active EO I channel. I’m sure you’re a part of that.
John Corcoran: 32:56
Yes.
!no name provided!: 32:56
Yeah.
Chanie Gluck: 32:56
That’s also like a fire hose, right. So we’re lucky to be in a place where we’re plugged into a network of other entrepreneurs. In fact, last night in Boca, we had a Jeffersonian dinner and the topic was AI. How are you using AI in your business? And we just all went around sharing.
And even just from a group of 18 people, we walked out with a bunch of new ideas. So I think it’s really about being exposed and you are using stuff and also listening to what other people are doing, and you get so much value from that.
John Corcoran: 33:29
Yeah, absolutely. I was just at an event last week where the same thing people were, you know, sharing different tools and stuff, and you’re taking notes and I gotta follow up with this, gotta follow up with this. Well, this has been great, Chanie. I know I want to wrap up, and I didn’t prepare you for this. I forgot to ask you beforehand to warn you, but I think you’ll be okay with this question anyways, so I’m a big fan of gratitude, and I’m a big fan of expressing gratitude and also giving my guests a little bit of space at the end here to express their gratitude, particularly for any like peers or contemporaries who, especially if they’re still in your life, that you can acknowledge and thank. So is there anyone that comes to mind that you. Would. Want to?
Chanie Gluck: 34:10
My list. It is so. My list is so long. But I, I, I’m going to pick a few. First of all, I have to thank you from, you know, from all the friends that I have. You reached out to me on October 7th, which I thought was really sweet of you.
I have very few people in my life, and it was really nice to hear from you during that time. So thank you for that. A few really, I think people that really center that have really shaped my trajectory, I would say. David Berg, EO, Arizona member. He’s a really good mentor to me, although he can make me cry and say the things I don’t want to hear.
But he’s been a really good mentor to me. There are many others as well, but I’m grateful to my husband who is my super support. I couldn’t do any of this without him. Obviously my children, my parents, so many people to be grateful for every day, my community that I’m in and and and EO as well. Really it’s a fantastic network. And to all the podcast listeners who continue to stay engaged and listen, I appreciate them as well.
John Corcoran: 35:33
Yeah, this has been great. Where can people go to learn more about you and learn more about 4D Global and Leaders in Medical Billing Podcast.
Chanie Gluck: 35:40
So you can find me on LinkedIn. Chanie Gluck C H A N I E G L U C K and our website is 4dglobalinc.com.
John Corcoran: 35:49
Awesome. Thanks so much.
Outro: 35:54
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.