John Corcoran 11:52
Yeah. Now, I also want to ask about what it sounds like that corresponded with around the same time that you also had a pivotal conversation with your father, that led you to start focusing on a kind of triple bottom line, which you can explain to people what that is and what that movement is about. But Doc about that conversation you had with your father, which was such a pivotal turning point for you.
Kent Gregoire 12:17
Yeah, so a few years before that time my father approached me and flew into Burlington, Vermont, he was on a plane trip. But one of his first stops was to come by my office. I was really fortunate, I was just back in Vermont. So my three big three buildings that I leased out on the Burlington waterfront, and brought back lots of memories. And one of the memories was my father asking me to go for a walk. And we were walking, what today is the Burlington waterfront park. And he’s had some messages for me, my father was a pretty quiet person, in a sense. So he’s very social, but quiet, in terms of giving advice to his children, he wanted us to find our own way. He loved that we make mistakes, and we’re resilient and through them. But in this case, one of the things he said to me really feels like you’re not focused on the right things in your business and in your personal life. To me that also equated to, when I look back on it, he understood I was starting to lose control, he might not have understood that he was not part of this company at all. So he only could observe what he could see in his son. Another thing that he brought up was, you know, can you’re really raised to be caring and kind toward other people. And I don’t see you doing that the way that you used to do that was very troubling for him, and he was definitely a pillar of not only the local community, but a much larger community. And then he kind of really hits me across the head and says, you know, this is great that you’re in this business, and you’re doing extraordinarily well, I’m really proud of you. But you’re doing it with no real meaning behind it all. And he was speaking to purpose, you know, that’s what we would consider it today. And I have to admit, early on in my career, I was much more focused on money, the purpose of business being profit. I certainly was schooled where that was the case. And so I, ultimately, a few years roll by, and I have an opportunity to connect with John Mackey in Atlanta.
John Corcoran 14:16
But before we get to that, was there anything that you did that? You know, that raised your father’s attention? Was there something in particular, you know, I don’t know, it could have been like laying off a group of people or something is just super business focus that made him want to have this conversation with you.
Kent Gregoire 14:37
Yeah, it’s a pretty deep one. I’ve not been asked that question before, but it’s an important part of why I’m unclear why even though I never asked him. It’s something I’ve had to look at more recently. I was very, without going into too deep. I was really successful young in a very big way. In many ways. I also had the advantage of being married to somebody who helped With my success financially, so while I didn’t have the business side, there were pretty deep pockets, to go do other things and not have to rely upon the money that was made in the company. So life was pretty cushy. And you know, I was living what a lot of people dream of doing in their lifetime and don’t see, at a very, very young age, I lost connection with my dad, I was very close in, I still am extremely close to who was my father in law at the time fact, I spoke with him this past weekend on Sunday. And, you know, it created a little bit of a rub, because I didn’t invite my father into the company. And here’s an extraordinary entrepreneur. And here I was the kid Damn, I’m trying to do this myself, you know, I can’t do this. Yeah, I, you know, there was a little bit of a chip on my shoulder. My father, by the way, was always supportive of me. But I believe that that really bothered him. And so from his view, he saw that I was losing my way. Also represented, I wasn’t connecting with him. I wasn’t showing up the way he showed up. And he really wanted, I believe, to be a part of that life. And he wasn’t, we ultimately continued having, you know, a growing relationship, and very, very close relationship. It just wasn’t an entrepreneurial journey relationship.
John Corcoran 16:21
Under said, good. Okay, so you mentioned John Mackey is, of course, the founder of Whole Foods, and you cross paths with them. And of course, he’s a big advocate of the conscious capitalism movement and wrote a book by the same name. So how did you first come across it? Was this something that you sought out that someone recommended, hey, you should go see him speak.
Kent Gregoire 16:44
So I was running another company in Atlanta at the time, not unusual for me to be running more than one company. And I thought, Wow, this company here has already got the right bones, I was doing it for another CEO taking over their role for a period of time for a year, like this company really has the bones of being a great conscious company. It’s on its way. But there are some things that are not working well for me. And as I began to look at, you know what a conscious business looks like. I literally Googled conscious business while on a flight back from Florida to Atlanta, where I was living at the time, and up came John Mackey’s name, found out he was coming into the Ethics Institute at Emory to speak. And I had an opportunity to not only go to that kind of little side note, they had no room left. They couldn’t get me in at that security. I waited for security to turn their heads and I ran in the door and I sat in the audience. And that’s how I got my introduction to John Mackey. Sounds like an entrepreneur, doesn’t it?
John Corcoran 17:44
Yes, it did happen. Yeah, you’re gonna make this thing happen.
Kent Gregoire 17:49
It’s one of those brazen things you do. I was waiting to be plucked out of the audience, to be honest with you. I really felt Yeah, let me and
John Corcoran 17:59
by the way, have you told him that story since
Kent Gregoire 18:02
I did tell him that story when I saw him in Austin? Yes. That’s great. That’s great. So I did have an opportunity to not only meet him in them, but catch up with him later on, in learning about Conscious Capitalism. You see, I’ve been on a journey. But what I was really looking for was more of a roadmap and more stories that were connected to not just doing good. But how was business from an entire ecosystem, operating like Whole Foods, that does good in the way that it operates. So what I mean by that is an example would be to separate it from ESGs, which are extraordinarily valuable, and initiatives, which I embrace wholeheartedly, but they’re also initiatives, where conscious capitalism and what I was seeking, that there had to be a business model, that you operate the entire company consciously, all the time. So that was my quest. And John Mackey helped me get on that road. Shortly after they were holding their first or my what was to become my first attendance at their annual The Conscious Capitalism CEO Summit. I qualified, I was operating a large enough company and
John Corcoran 19:15
These are pretty significant companies that have to be invited 10 million plus and revenues to get invited into these events. And what was this like, for you coming into this event? Who was there? You know, I take me back to that moment. Cuz I love to hear when you know, you come into a room like this. And it’s like, sometimes it’s like the clouds part. And you realize, wow, look at all these luminaries and what they’re doing.
Kent Gregoire 19:40
Yeah, so one of my first experiences sitting on a couch where this gentleman’s on one end, I’m on the other end, we’re just sitting there having a conversation, no idea who he is. I didn’t ask him who years we’re having a great conversation about life and other things. We were connecting it to consciousness, and a long period of time went by And this guy by the name of Hamdi. And, you know, surely right after that Chobani knows, and which is another great story like to tell about what they’ve done from a conscious point of view. I met people in comedy, I met Kari, who’s the founder of EarthKind. I met these entrepreneurs and start hearing their stories. But the stories that I hear from conscious capitalism entrepreneurs are quite different than I hear, oftentimes, ordinary entrepreneurial stories, they connect much more to the deeper purpose in what purpose means to them is quite a bit different than what most companies consider purpose. When I heard that connection. That was a one of the big light bulbs that went off of these sessions, I was there for four days, and met a lot of different people. I was sitting across from another couple, I didn’t realize I knew who they were, I knew they were MOD Pizza, and they were the co-founders, husband and wife. And while I’m talking to him enjoying the conversation, they’re the next guest speakers. You know, my whole event, there was like a constantly I’m sitting next to people who are like the people who are going up on stage and talking about their story, and the impact that they’ve had towards society. And the environment is just extraordinary. And they’re doing it through an operating model, not just choosing to do an initiative off the side, but how they’re running their business, I have to tell you, that was just a big breakthrough for me, and it’s what I was looking for.
John Corcoran 21:28
So tell me, so what businesses were you in at the time with a consumer product type of businesses are different? Well,
Kent Gregoire 21:35
one was a manufacturing company, another um, at that time, I was the one that I was leading for another CEO for a year. That particular company was live answering, and had been around for a number of years. And again, both those companies were doing really well. And there were some fun things happening, of course, business challenges, but fun things happening. And the ability to be able to not only bring more conscious principles back to those companies, but also a number of clients that I worked with. So taking a look at challenges that they were having, and trying to recycle these solutions over and over and then just have a different coating on them. And to come up and be able to think about business differently. And to develop and work with them on new solutions that not only met short term needs, that also works sustainable became really exciting.
John Corcoran 22:28
So give me an example then. So you come back from this four day summit. And you say, Hey, guys, I got the roadmap. Now, what changes did you make as a result? And how did you do it? Did you convene the management team, the executive team say, Hey, here’s some changes that we need to make. This is what we’re going to do. Here’s why.
Kent Gregoire 22:44
Now, in the company that I was running for someone else, what I did, there was actually more work from the bottom up, the top was aware, but they really weren’t given, I didn’t ask them to buy into it. I literally started with the floor. I wanted the people in Florida to understand and begin to explore with me what it would look like if we were truly operating as a conscious capitalism company. That exploration was really exciting. And one of the things that they noticed, and it was a big breakthrough early on, some had been doing research and understood that what culture is, and what if they had a good culture, that there was a new understanding of what culture is and how it’s there to potentially support employees and thriving in their life. And that care in culture is independent of performance. In fact, it’s irrelevant to performance. Those are some of the early breakthroughs in working with that group. And when you can work from the bottom up, which is not typical, I wouldn’t necessarily advise a company. To do that. It’s the approach I used. Because I was in an interesting position. Not only was I running the company as his most senior person, for the owners, but I was also an advisor to this company for two years prior to being asked to be in that role. So you know, I wanted to use a little bit of that muscle of trying things differently. I really liked the difference, but I do think if you don’t have the buy-in and the consciousness around leadership at the top, you can fail quickly.
John Corcoran 24:18
So talk to me about you know, conscious capitalism has these four pillars, higher purpose, stakeholder capitalism, conscious leadership and caring culture. And you work with, with clients, companies that want to adopt conscious capitalism as a model for them. Which of those four areas do they struggle with the most? Which one do you find you need to help them with? Most aggressively?
Kent Gregoire 24:46
Well, I’d say the one that’s most challenging for many is conscious leadership. You would think that might be easy, but that’s really challenging, and it shows
John Corcoran 24:54
That makes sense, right? Because that’s about changing one oneself, right?
Kent Gregoire 24:58
It’s very easy. It is challenging, it’s a lifelong quest, it doesn’t end. And it’s, it is a lot of learning. It’s not necessarily academic learning, it’s a lot of self reflection, a lot of self assessment, and coaching can be particularly helpful in that journey. And then from there, it really depends on where the company is. So traditionally, a company is going to say, can, you know, I’m interested in learning more about Conscious Capitalism, or they know something about it, they’re having some business challenges, and or there could be some opportunities they’re not quite sure how to pursue yet. And they want to look at their entire ecosystem. In some situations, we might begin with stakeholder management, it may be where we need to begin, we can begin in that area and work with the entire ecosystem. But we’re ultimately going to have to work on a higher purpose. So then we go back to higher purpose in the stakeholder, it sets up the to others. And that sets us up for a caring culture, because employees are a stakeholder as well as investors. So we start looking at those overall. And that’s, you know, an important piece. For some leaders. Stakeholder management is tough, because we’re so used to making ethical decisions that are not ethical, right? You know, we use trade offs, that’s where the trade off comes in, you know, a classic trade off might be, you know, I, I’m short of cash at the end of the year, do I pay my employees a bonus? Or do I do something for them? Or do I pay my suppliers on time? And, you know, every CEO and leadership team will try to rationalize their way through it. But they have to really ask is, you know, what are they each looking for, and then go to their stakeholders in that case, classic example might be going to your suppliers first, not just the suppliers you have money to, but actually go to the supplier group that you rely upon to help keep you abreast of what’s going on from their point of view. And to help bring you the strategy that’s needed to continue to grow your company. It is actually based on a real case situation. In that case, most of the suppliers said, Yeah, you know, delay the payment, the most important thing to do is to make sure your employees are happy. And they’re doing well, we don’t want to disrupt that because they’re the secret sauce to why your company does well. And if they’re doing well, then that means you’re going to continue to do well by us. Some didn’t need money sooner. So you don’t have to treat all the stakeholders in that particular group the same, you get consensus, what does each of them actually need? How can they participate? So maybe they push it out 10 days on or another says 90 days, somebody else has something else, and you begin to work with them. I use that approach in another company that I had not that particular example. And I have to say it works really well. I brought my suppliers in, in a manufacturing company. And they really, really participated with me. It wasn’t so much about money that was sometimes part of it is really about some problems we had in manufacturing, and our raw materials, and we compounded those materials. So we were running into new challenges we had never seen before. And there was more than one variable taking place.
John Corcoran 28:17
Yeah. You know, it seems like to me maybe I’m a little too close to it. But it seems like there’s been this movement towards conscious leadership, conscious capitalism has been gaining steam and getting more attention. Do you feel the same way? Do you feel like there’s more companies that are adopting this?
Kent Gregoire 28:39
There are more companies for the reason I believe there are more companies, there are several, but one in particular, business is just changing. We’re evolving, and eight out of 10 Americans are asking companies, you know, to take a different approach. They want companies to be a force for good to help write challenges around society and the planet. Society is a big word for some; it’s simply a community. What is that community? So they use the word obligation in the research studies that have been done, as well as the surveys and the polls? Yeah, he out of 10 Americans believe that business has an obligation to address them. And that, as it turns out, business is, you know, human ingenuity is so powerful that business has the opportunity to do that. More leaders are finding Wow, now I can have a really deep purpose. I can really leave a legacy. I can do things in a new way. Like and I can really enjoy doing it and have more fun, this notion of win lose, like I know, we’ve all used for many, many years. I shouldn’t say all but many of us, especially in the past, you know 35 Over the years have talked about the B hags, and behind circuit, they give us some guidance, but at the same time, it’s like crushed Adidas, you know, Nikes crushed Adidas, this whole notion of having to crush to win, therefore we create a lot of losers. Actually, it’s pervasive throughout the entire organization. If we’re operating that way, we actually begin to create a culture that looks like and our culture creates an adverse competition in which a few people are winning and everyone else is losing. Why do we have such huge disengagement? That is perhaps one of the reasons but it’s not the only reason, huge disengagement not only in the US. But globally. We have a huge misunderstanding. We think engagement is something that we can control. We think it’s something that we should specifically work toward with tactics. Engagement, to me, is the same as profit. We do all the right things in it ensues, profits there. We do all the right things, engagement is there. It’s not divine like, what’s the strategy I have to use and put all these pieces of puzzle together? It’s not easier, but it’s a different approach.
John Corcoran 31:12
Can’t this be fascinating? We’re running short on time. So I want to wrap up with the last question I asked, which is, you know, I’m a big fan of expressing gratitude, especially publicly to those who have helped you along in your business journey. And you know, you mentioned John Mackey and others that your father that had big impact, we always think family and friends, of course, but you know, beyond that, who are the, you know, peers and contemporaries that you really respect and admire who are doing good work, who young you would shout their names from the rooftops because you’re so proud of the work that they do?
Kent Gregoire 31:48
Sure. One of them. We don’t talk that much anymore. But he really had a profound impact on my life as an early mentor. That’s Dr. Robert Skiff. He was president of Champlain College, he was an entrepreneur as well. And in the spirit of Champlain College as an entrepreneur and why that university, founded in the 1800s, under his leadership did so extraordinary. Well, I was having challenges as a young person, he was one that I could really go to, and begin to work through them, even though I felt I lost some sense of control that he was there. And he continued to support me in many, many different ways. There have been a number of individuals over the course of the years, another one was Willard Jackson. He continues to this day periodically, I’ll reach out to him. What I really liked about Willer Jackson is his stewardship to your property. He didn’t consider that he owns a lot of land, a lot of very valuable property, and is a conservationist, very much a capitalist. But he was always extremely thoughtful, making decisions, looking at the long term and making sure that stakeholders were benefiting. That’s pretty extraordinary, considering he was one of the most senior partners, for many years the oldest investment Council firm in the United States came from a financial background. But if you’d met Phil Jackson, or meet him, you would see a story and understand why he did so extraordinarily well, in in that has always been a mentor to me, both of those individuals, whether I’m talking to them or not, we’re now my father who’s no longer here. You know, they speak to me in different ways. And what they said were very, very wise words and have helped me in my path,
John Corcoran 33:37
who in the conscious capitalism community is doing good work that you respect and admire.
Kent Gregoire 33:43
Yeah, one of the persons I respect and admire a lot is Nathan Havey. Nathan is also a consultant like I am, but he’s really extraordinary and thought we work closely together. I really liked the work that Nathan is doing, or we’re doing together, it’s pretty extraordinary. One of you know, I mentioned hom Hamdi of Chobani, you know, an extraordinary individual. Another one would be Kari, with EarthKind, the founder. I actually have a story. That’s amazing. And I try to try to find now and then places for her to tell her story. It goes beyond grit in resilience, and extraordinary success in creating a Blue Zone. She actually created, you know, her own code out there, a Blue Zone, by being friendly toward insects, while still making sure insects are not the problem for us as humans. It’s not just insects, it’s mice and other things. So there’s, there’s a number of people within the community, I rarely ever meet anybody in Conscious Capitalism, like, I don’t admire and I learned from the very kind group very, an interesting group. And I like the fact that I can pick up the phone and call them and converse. I mean, Kari took my phone call and, you know, that’s just whatever’s going on in our life. And, you know, it’s always like a yes. I’m excited to hear from you. Conscious capitalists are very excited to receive any communication, whether it be an email, a phone call, we’re kind of yes people. We approach it from a mindset that everything is really beautiful and amazing and there’s something to be learned.
John Corcoran 35:22
Kent, such a pleasure talking to you. Where can people go to learn more about you and the work that you do?
Kent Gregoire 35:27
Sure. Well, I’m definitely on different social channels. It’s [email protected], my email address. symphonyadvantage.com being the website. And certainly, you can reach me through our website. I always enjoy conversations, to help people continue to elevate their understanding of conscious business. And that’s what I invite. I’m a speaker on behalf of the movement, as well as my own organization and the opportunity to share in, give and help people on their path of continued learning and the ability to potentially think differently about business is a great pleasure. And thanks so much. Thank you very much, John.
Outro 36:16
Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.