Katty Douraghy | The Massive Changes in Creative and Digital and How Businesses Get Through Grief and Loss

John Corcoran 11:29

That’s right. Right. Right. Talk to me about what it the experience has been like for you to take that hat off, but to focus on your work with forums and businesses that have suffered loss, and what that experience has been, like, maybe you could take us through, if you can think of some examples of instances where you’ve come in, you’ve helped either a forum or a business, you know, to reveal their identifying, you know, who they are or anything like that, of course, but what how do you take them through? How do you help? Whether a business or a forum that suffered some kind of loss, what do you do?

Katty Douraghy 12:11

Well, my specialty is as a facilitator, you know, in whatever environment, whether it’s an eo, whether in a forum, or if I’m working with a business, is really to create a safe space so that people feel comfortable, so they can share. And that, you know, regardless of whether they’re sharing their most intimate thoughts about their business, or they’re talking about their most intimate thoughts about a loss, the whole thing starts with trust, and really creating safety so that they can come to the table and share. So in instances where I’ve had the opportunity to talk to groups, regardless of what the topic has been, I think that’s really the strength to be able to have everybody get into a space and into a mindset that they’re, they’re okay with not being okay, right. That’s it, they’re okay with being vulnerable. And to really talk about things that are really deep in their hearts, and to share from there, that that really is it, I don’t, it’s really not a different technique. Because the topic is different. The whole thing comes from just making sure that somebody is comfortable and feels safe enough to be able to share. And then do you take them through a process? Or is it just kind of giving them the opportunity to?

John Corcoran 13:30

I don’t know, event is the right word, but to talk it through?

Katty Douraghy 13:34

Yeah, so it depends. It depends on how the loss has occurred, whether it was sudden, whether it was an illness, whether people had the chance to say goodbye, whether they didn’t have that opportunity. So there are various exercises to be able to take people through, depending on kind of what stage they’re at, you know, the early days of grief, it’s so raw that, again, depending on the relationship that they had with the person whose past, they may not be the right time. And you know, if it’s the latter stages of grief, then it’s again, it’s a different conversation and a different relationship. So it’s very much custom based on who the group is, what the relationship with the loss was and how the loss occurred. But it’s really just to make sure people know that it’s okay that they’re still grieving that it’s okay that they’re, you know, that they haven’t said their goodbyes and to create a space where they can do that.

John Corcoran 14:32

Right, right. I want to take a step backwards to the origins of artisan creative. How did it How did it start?

Katty Douraghy 14:43

Yeah, so my brother in law, actually, Bijon started artisan talents. Jamie joined him about six months later, and then after a few years, they decided to separate an art and my brother in law still operates artists and talents and Mostly in New York and in Chicago. So the eastern hemisphere or eastern side of the US, and artists, and creative is more focused on the western side of the US. So we operate primarily on the staffing side of it is here in California. But on the direct hire full time recruiting or project-based work is now all over the US. So that’s how it started is really my brother in law that brought it forth. And then Jamie joined it. And he

John Corcoran 15:31

explained to us the types of roles that you place for. And then I want to get into talking about some of the changes that you’ve seen over your 20 years working in the field, because there’s such changes have happened in the digital world, you know, all the different social platforms that are out there these days, but what types of positions particularly if you could share what you work on? I know it’s like, art directors, creative directors, graphic designer, stuff like that, correct?

Katty Douraghy 15:57

Yep. Exactly. Ui UX people, copywriters, content strategists, cmio, social media strategists, brand strategists, marketing managers, so really any, any team, any creative department, or advertising agency design firm that has a creative output, we place, the people that can be all through that chain, whether it’s they’re on the accounting side of it, or they’re on the actual design side of it. So as long as the output is a creative output, that’s where we specialize in.

John Corcoran 16:32

Okay. And how have how has things changed for you given like over the last 20 years, you know, I remember my first job after college was through Apple, something was the name of the staffing agency. I got it. Apple one. Thank you. Yes, Apple one. I remember. And I went and I registered for a bunch of different temp and staffing agencies after college and got placed in different places and stuff. But now there’s marketplaces online, how has that affected your business and the markets that you go after? Yeah, thanks for asking. Well, I would say the biggest change, really, it has occurred this past year with virtual work. That’s what COVID brought for us. Yeah. And we’re recording this, by the way, for those who listen to it in the future may of 2021. So after a year of pandemic, go ahead.

Katty Douraghy 17:24

Yeah. So we’ve been a remote office for 11 years. And when we first went remote, when the 2008 2009 downturn, economic downturn had happened, our the building that we had been in for 14 years got sold. And suddenly we were like, we’re out of here. And we tried to this virtual thing, and weren’t quite sure how it’s gonna work. And it worked beautifully. But back then.

John Corcoran 17:52

And pre slack pre so many different tools.

Katty Douraghy 17:55

Yeah, right. Zoom, zoom. Oh, please zoom, for sure. And anytime you would tell someone that we were, we were virtual, or we were going remote, they were like, are you running? Are you still in business? And to see that anymore? Right. Exactly, exactly. So when the pandemic first hit, what we realized was that oh my gosh, like we have so many clients that have not even thought about what would their remote workforce look like? So we actually jumped in and started doing some webinars for people and teach, you know, sharing with them, what is it that we had learned over the years?

John Corcoran 18:33

And not even related to the work that you do? Exactly. I guess that’s just kind of like sharing wisdom. Yeah, I love that.

Katty Douraghy 18:40

People were panicking, right? People were like, people working from home, I’m like, totally cool. You can do this.

John Corcoran 18:49

I mean, my company is fully virtual tools is like, settle down. It’s okay. It’ll be fine. You’ll love your sweat pants soon. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Katty Douraghy 18:59

That’s funny. And so. So from that perspective, it’s obviously changed quite a bit. And now we’re looking at where the future of work can be, whether it’s a hybrid model, where some people are in the office, some people come into the office every few days. And it’s really opened up the talent pool where we’re now seeing people not necessarily being limited to geography, and, you know, if it’s a California company, but they can work with somebody in, you know, in the Midwest, then so be it, they’re open to that. So I think there’s a lot of opportunity there in terms of expansion of the workforce. Of course, people have to work harder in terms of creating culture and making sure people are coming together regularly, whether it’s virtual zoom retreats, and gatherings and things like that, as we’ve had to do in the iOS world, right? So yes, it’s in handy. But in terms of the business arc, I remember the days of the Exacto knives, and the Spray mounds. I mean, I’m dating myself here, people out there. But you know, with the with it, you know, free Photoshop In other words, right Photoshop? Yeah, for sure.

John Corcoran 20:10

Corel Draw things by hand. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So what good,

Katty Douraghy 20:17

isn’t it what I’ve seen probably the biggest change is this collaboration between technology and design, you know, before they were on their own paths, but now, especially with UI UX, you know, you just see this interaction of the two of them together. One, it can’t just look pretty, it has to be format and function. And that that’s, I think, where we’re seeing big, big changes, goes on the talent side, the various skills that they’re bringing to the table, as well as what the clients are asking for.

John Corcoran 20:49

And, you know, there there are some who have argued that there’s been this downward pressure in the marketplace with big marketplaces, the fibers of the world. Has that influenced your business? Or is that influenced the markets, the clients that you serve? That you serve?

Katty Douraghy 21:09

Yeah, I think when it first came onto, know, what came into reality, Fiverr, Upwork, all of those. And to be honest, I know that works for a lot of people, that’s perfectly fine. They probably weren’t ever going to be attracted to the type of service that we offer, anyway. And no, we’ve had people who’ve come to us as a from a recruitment stance, and we just weren’t not the right partner for them. So what it has done, I think it’s just really got clarity for us as to who is the right partner for us, and who we can be the right partner, for. We’re all about relationships, the beauty, I think, the business that we’re in, we just celebrated 25 years, this past February, and many of our talents and clients have been with us for, you know, in the double digits in terms of years. So that’s the niche that we’re bringing to the table. It’s not just throwing resumes at the Dart and hope that one sticks, it’s really getting ingrained with an understanding what a client’s culture is, and who would be the right fit and what is what problem do they have that they’re trying to solve? And if a 99 cent design is going to be the right situation for them, and the right solution for them, and so be it, we won’t be the right solution in that instance, does interesting, it’s been, I think, revealed as to who really as our core client, and who isn’t, and who we can be a partner with. And we can,

John Corcoran 22:41

right, there are unique challenges to being in the field that you’re in, both in terms of the talent that you’re placing creative people have a certain how do we describe reputation? You know, how do you deal with that? And then also, just the nature of creative work being oftentimes subjective? Is Is that a challenge for you in terms of placing quality people and in dealing with that subjectivity being an issue in the nature of what you do?

Katty Douraghy 23:18

I’ll answer your first question. First. I love being working with creative people. And I love the way they look at the world. I love the way that they’re not in a box, and that the ideation and the creativity, it just oozes. And I’m not a creative myself, but I call myself I call me a creative groupie. So I like to be around creative talent. And the second piece, you’re absolutely right, creativity is subjective art is subjective. And where I think we specialize when we do the placements is really get an understanding as to not only what the client’s aesthetic is about, but what the clients client’s aesthetic is about. Because oftentimes, we’re placing someone, let’s say, at a design firm, and they’re going to be working on a particular brand, a particular client for that particular agency. So really having an understanding. Because if somebody says they want design and design of somebody who’s designing for Disney is very different than the design of somebody who’s designing for Apple, right? They’re both graphic designers, but really understanding what it is that aesthetic requires. That’s the key. That’s the key of really understanding who your client is, and who the talent is. What is it that they’re bringing to the table?

John Corcoran 24:38

Yeah, now, there’s so many different emerging fields that are just having such dramatic impact on the business world these days from e commerce to all the different social media channels that are coming along. It seems that there’s so much more demand for creativity and creative work. There’s need for images, there’s need for photography, there’s need for writing. Talk to me a little bit about the, the way in which this is just changing the landscape in the marketplace and, and the types of needs that you’re fulfilling for clients right now.

Katty Douraghy 25:16

We’ve seen a shift in, obviously, social media and its growth has been astronomical. And it’s not just social for the sake of posting something on Instagram, it’s social. From an audience engagement standpoint, it’s from a client acquisition standpoint. So really understanding their creativity and how that marries the ROI ROI. As I was saying earlier, it can’t just be pretty for the sake of being pretty there has to be a data components to it, there has to be an ROI component to it. I think, at least where people are coming to us for the rules that they’re looking to place that has that component has to be there has to be the business understanding behind creativity, versus just this design the logo, that, you know, I mean, to your point, maybe they can go to Fiverr or Upwork for that. But when they’re coming to us, it’s really understanding the business of creativity and making sure that they the creative that’s being created has impact and there’s ROI to it.

John Corcoran 26:31

to split. Yeah, really marriage between the business side and the creative side. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we

Katty Douraghy 26:37

see so much in the data side of it data analytic, analytic side of it when it comes to design. And you know, how many clicks how many opens how many, you know, all the A B testing that goes along with with the creative, it’s pretty fascinating how, you know, that full circle of design and creativity, and analytics, and technology all have come together?

John Corcoran 27:03

Yeah, it’s fascinating to me, the types of personalities that are able to balance those different pieces, you know, someone who is almost like, people need to have both the creative side and analytical side in order to be really good at those types of skills that are in demand these days.

Katty Douraghy 27:22

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And also, I think, realistically, some companies, you know, want a unicorn, you know, unicorns do exist, there’s just not that many of them. Yeah. And to be able to really recognize that, okay, maybe I do need two people, because I need one person to focus on this, and another to focus on this. Yes, they’ll intersect. But there’s, you know, sometimes it’s not one person that can do it. All.

John Corcoran 27:50

Right, right. And I imagine that’s part of just you have to explain it to people or get them to buy into that understanding.

Katty Douraghy 27:56

Yeah, you have to kind of just consult with them and help them understand what is the job description? What’s it must have versus nice to have and ready to be able to focus on that.

John Corcoran 28:06

Right? Well, we’re running short of time, I want to wrap up with the question. I love enjoying, enjoy asking, which is a big fan of gratitude. So if you look around, particularly at your peers and contemporaries, and I don’t think we often do this, but take the time to single them out and acknowledge them for the work that they do. But if you however, you want to define that if you look at your peers and contemporaries, who’s out there doing good work that you really respect and admire the work that they’re doing.

Katty Douraghy 28:35

Yeah, absolutely. So I do gratitude every day. And that’s actually one of the things that helped me get through, you know, what I was doing going through the grieving process is was just looking around and just realizing what I still had versus what I didn’t have. So I’m a big, big fan of gratitude as you are John. And one of my contemporaries that I’ll do a shout out for that I’m so grateful for everything she does, is a woman actually from eo Her name is Winnie Hart. And she has a brand new branding agency called TwinEngine, and really making a difference in terms of honing in on what people do to stand out. So she’s currently working on how do you stand out as a thought leader, for example. And I’ve always admired her from a business perspective, and also from a creative perspective. But also what I really admire her for is she’s just one of those people that sees and recognizes the spark and others and really helps foster people to get to the next stage of their lives. And so I’ll do a shout out to Winnie.

John Corcoran 29:46

What’s her website so people can go check it out you know?

Katty Douraghy 29:48

TwinEngine

John Corcoran 29:49

Okay, TwinEngine great, excellent. artistscreative.com, the butterfly years is the name of the book which you can go check out I imagine on Amazon and wherever you Get your books. And where can people go check out the podcast?

Katty Douraghy 30:03

The podcast is called the artisan podcast. And you can find it on iTunes or if you go on the artist and creative site, you’ll be able to find it that way as well.

John Corcoran 30:12

Excellent. Alright, Carrie, it was a pleasure. Thanks so much, John, thank

Katty Douraghy 30:16

you so much.

Outro 30:17

Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smart businessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.