John Warrillow 2:52
Yeah, I felt like, you know, thank you for having me, by the way. And thank you for the kind introduction. I yeah, you know, I’ve done now 300 episodes, or roughly that have built a sell radio where I interview different entrepreneurs every week and say like, how did you sell your company? What did you do? And what I found is there’s this, there’s a group, it’s a small cohort of my guests who seem to perform and punch well above their weight when it comes to selling and what I mean by that is there the multiples they get for their companies seem to be disproportionately high relative to the normal. Yeah. And so I just tried to figure out like, what are they doing differently? And I noticed that they sort of had a bit of a playbook
John Corcoran 3:29
FSA. And it’s funny when I listen to some of these episodes, where you almost kind of like, there’s kind of like, a pleasant surprise and in your voice as you’re talking to these people. And you’re like, how did you do you just like genuine curiosity? How do you get that multiple?
John Warrillow 3:48
Yeah, and it just did an episode like, literally 10 minutes ago, with a guy who sold a professional services company. So 30 employees, you know, assets, as David Ogilvy said, you know, go up and down the elevator every single night. And a typical professional services company might trade at, you know, four or five times EBIT, da, that would be a pretty common multiple, he got 12 times EBIT, without an urn out a lot of professional services companies, that’s the way they sell, right? You get a bit of money upfront, but they generally then tie you into a three year five year earnout, where you gotta hit these goals along the way. And he got out 12 times and no aren’t out. And my reaction was is you just said, Well, why did you do that? Yeah.
John Corcoran 4:33
Now, one thing that was surprising and insight from one of your recent podcast episodes was that businesses as they cross like an eight figure threshold, there may be more buyers out there. And then when they’re below that threshold, which was a really interesting revelation for me when I listened to that, why is that?
John Warrillow 4:55
It’s primarily because private equity companies start to enter the fore when There is at least a million dollars of EBIT, da. So private equity is this whole legion of buyers who buy businesses and their general floor minimum is a company with at least a million dollars of profit. And so if you’re thinking of a company with 10% profit margins, that means that they have about $10 million of annual revenue, it’s kind of their minimum cut their clip. And there literally are an army of private equity groups out there who basically buy companies, they try to buy them as low as they can. And they try to flip them downstream. And so while bigger companies have, obviously strategic acquirers that are looking to buy them, smaller businesses don’t generally have that. But once you click that eight figure mark, you can be very attracted to private equity groups. Okay.
John Corcoran 5:48
And now I apologize, I butchered the title of the book, it’s actually the art of selling your business, not the art of selling the art of selling your business. And now, you mentioned private equity firms. And you also talk on the podcast, and in the book about strategic versus financial buyers, and our private equity that they could be either right and can you explain the difference between those two different types of buyers and why you should care?
John Warrillow 6:15
Yeah, for sure. So the private equity group is usually what is determined by the financial buyer. And so what they’re buying is your future stream of profit. And so for them, they’re placing a value on your business based on how much profit you expect to make in the future, and how reliable those estimates are. So they tend to buy businesses with healthy profit, and very predictable profit. So when in a carved out niche that they’ve been in for years, and that they can be you know, relatively sure that the business is going to continue. Strategic acquirers are buying your business for what it’s worth in their hands. And it’s usually easier if I give you an example, then try to technically explain it. Essentially, your business might be worth more in the in the hands of at a strategic acquire because it’s something they’re trying to do or something they own. So I interviewed a guy called Jay Steinfeld, who built blinds.com and blinds.com was started around the time Jeff Bezos started Amazon. Jay Steinfeld figured Bezos can sell books, I can sell blinds, the only challenge with blinds is they’re more complicated, right? You can measure them, you got to pick them out, you got to install them. And so it took them longer. But after whatever 30 years, he built blinds.com into $100 million company. And when he went to sell it, Home Depot was his strategic acquire. Now why would people want to buy blinds number one, it was because they were number one in their category. And Home Depot wanted to be number one blinds. The second reason, though, is hidden. But it’s I think, equally, if not more important than that is that Home Depot was struggling to get people to buy stuff on their website, everybody wanted to rock up to a Home Depot store and buy in a store. But Home Depot knows that if they get people to buy on their on their website, it’s gonna be infinitely more profitable for them. And so in buying blinds, they approached Jay to do that, because they were like if we can basically figure out his secret sauce for selling complicated products that need to be installed, and then graph that knowledge on to $90 billion worth of revenue, which is how much revenue they were getting at the time, that company is worth a lot to us. And that’s the definition of a strategic one for Home Depot. The knowledge blinds had was much more valuable in Home Depot’s hands because they could spread it out across $9 billion $90 billion of revenue. So that’s, that’s the difference between Dziedzic and a financial and generally will, will then garner a higher value for your company. And for that reason,
John Corcoran 8:38
right now you’ve interviewed so many founders on your show, who’ve sold to both strategic and financial buyers, do you notice a difference in maybe in terms of success of the ultimate transaction or in happiness of the founder after the fact based on which one they sold to?
John Warrillow 8:57
Yeah, look, I think, I think private equity groups are challenging in the sense that the deals they structure are generally a majority recapitalization where they’re buying a majority ownership in your business, but not all of your business. And so they asked you to carry a percentage of equity into a new entity. And so it’s kind of being half pregnant, like you’ve sold your company, but only 70% of it. And so you’ve got to carry a chunk through It’s enough that it’s meaningful that you don’t want to walk away from it. But it’s also a challenge to manage and operate with a private equity group as an investor. So you’re basically being held hostage or you’re you’re in the business, but you’re no longer controlled. And I’m reminded, I did an interview with a woman. Sherry deutschmann is her name and she’s based in Nashville. She built a company where they do billing for hospitals. She built it out of 40 employees and kind of from scratch right and early in her decision making she decided She was going to share profits with her employees. And she hired a lot of like, you know, hourly workers, simple jobs to some extent. And, and, and she decided that she was going to pay each month a small portion of her profits. And so at the beginning, the checks were like $7- $12, very small. But over time, they started to get more meaningful for her employees. And so by the time she hit 40, employees shared, decided to sell, and she sold to a private equity group. Now, that sounds great on the surface, but she rolled some equity in and the private equity group started to change the business. And one of the things they did very quickly is they said, This profit sharing thing is costing us all this money. We don’t need to pay these hourly workers all this money. Let’s get rid of it. And Sherry said no, no, that’s, that’s part of our culture. That’s what makes us different as a place to work. And they sit down Oh, but look how much it’s costing us. You can see here on the Excel spreadsheet, row number 14, that it’s costing us all this money. And lo and behold, they got rid of the profit sharing plan. And it destroyed the culture of the company. When I spoke to Sherry, I think she was from 40, I think there were only like six or seven employees left from that 40 high point. And, and she left the company, she walked away from her role as CEO, because it was just devastating for her. And so that’s a sad story. But it’s emblematic of some of the problems associated with selling private equity because they are financial engineers, as opposed to entrepreneurs. And there is a difference.
John Corcoran 11:34
I hope I’m not conflating different episodes. But I think I remember in that episode, she also told her employees beforehand that she was going to sell and got them involved. So she didn’t have to hide it. To all of them. She didn’t have to, you know, kind of, you know, sneak around or anything like that. And she actually incentivizes them. And actually, there’s a wonderful story about after the fact after she sold that she was able to share, I think was 15% of the profit with employees. But, you know, one question I was going to ask related to that is, you don’t often hear that you don’t often hear about sellers telling all their team that they’re going to sell before and and there’s this kind of a big thing that they’re fearful of a lot of time. So reflect on that, whether that’s the right approach, or whether you think more founders should tell their team beforehand.
John Warrillow 12:26
Yeah, it’s one of those difficult things where what is morally right, is strategically wrong. Meaning what is morally right is to tell your employees you’re thinking of selling, these are the people that you have, or your data to, in many cases, they’re friends of yours. They’re their keepers of your culture, and you feel indebted to them. And so it feels very natural to want to share the news that you’re thinking of selling, or that you sign a letter of intent or that you know, blah, blah, blah, almost always it is a strategic mistake, because when you give leverage to the other side, they use that. And one of the ways you can give leverage to the other side is to tell your employees because at that point, they become motivated to help you sell, maybe there’s some equity in it, they may also get fearful, and that information can become used against you. So look, I think it’s almost always a mistake to let your employees know. And it’s even a mistake to let an acquire, have a conversation with your employees, because oftentimes acquires us the veil of an acquisition to actually scoop or recruit your employees. I’m reminded of a story in the book actually, it’s a private equity group whose name should go on mentioned.
John Corcoran 13:48
And maybe they shouldn’t be approached at different companies in the same industry.
John Warrillow 13:51
They were building out a play in this, they were rolling up companies in this industry, and they used a non binding indication of interest to get business owners excited about selling to them. And so they kind of put together when I say non binding, they weren’t legally required to fulfill their requirements. But it was sort of a two page Hey, you know, we’re acquiring companies in your industry that love to sit down with you. And they use this veil to interview the executive team of these companies. Well, after 80 different conversations, they made two acquisitions. And they systematically went and hired employees from the every other 78 companies that they were interviewing, because those companies had opened their kimono too early. Right? They do their best. Yeah, yeah. Without an NDA, they basically said Yeah, come on in. I want to meet Bob and Susan and the private equity group went about basically using that information. So look, I think long story short, I think it’s I think you’re gonna want to tell your employees but it’s almost always in the steak.
John Corcoran 15:02
So, yeah, I have so many things I want to ask you. But I, we’ve kind of skipped over one of the foundational pieces, which is the most important question that most founders never answer. They never asked themselves, right from the get go. share that with all of us.
John Warrillow 15:21
Yeah, look, I mean, most of the book is very hard technical advice. Very specific advice. This is sort of a little bit more Kumbaya, a little bit more fluffy. But I think it’s, it’s very important. And that is that for most entrepreneurs, we are all pushing no pull when it comes to selling our business, meaning, we’re frustrated, we’re bored. We’re, you know, there’s, there’s something that’s bugging us about our company, and therefore we’re like, okay, I want to sell. And this
John Corcoran 15:51
is the push versus the pole that you write about and talk. Thank you.
John Warrillow 15:55
Yeah, thanks for reminding me to kind of keep me on track that we’re all pushed, meaning we’re, we’re basically running away from things in our business. Yet, the folks who end up being happiest with their exit, tend to be more pull, meaning they tend to be thinking about where they want to go. The book, they want to write the course they want to create the company, they want to start the charity, they want to build etc. and that’s sort of Oh, yeah, yeah, I’m sure that’s important. It sounds kind of fluffy. And, you know, but it’s, I think, very important to get clear on that. Because it, it, it. It’s one of the reasons I think a lot of entrepreneurs end up regretting their decision to sell, because they’ve taken away this really meaningful part of who they are. And they haven’t filled the void with something else.
John Corcoran 16:48
you’ve sold four businesses, where were you in that spectrum, when you made each of those sales?
John Warrillow 16:56
I mean, I think, not not in great shape, to be honest, not where I should have been, I think the one that I got, right, it was the last one, I’m a slow learner. I, you know, my wife and I decided we had young kids at the time. And we decided that it would be really cool to live abroad. We were living in, you know, Toronto, where it’s cold six months of the year, and we thought, you know, what, wouldn’t it be cool to live somewhere else. And so we decided that we were going to move and you know, pick up our family, put them in a local school and really kind of burn the ships as they say, and, and really dive into a different culture. And so we decided to move to Europe. And, and that gave us something to focus on. And so when I sold my last company, I was very much deep into the planning for that, the excitement of being over there, you know, everything’s new cultures there. And that was really, that was really important for me to emotionally get beyond the sale of the company, because it was even just physically being in a different environment was important for me.
John Corcoran 18:04
And one of the chapters you write about the timing of your exit, how to decide when to sell, which I imagine when you have something that’s pulling you like that idea of going living abroad, makes it a little more complex and makes it a little harder. So how do you time it?
John Warrillow 18:21
Yeah, I mean, look, I think one of the biggest mistakes is trying to time it, I think, a lot of entrepreneurs, we are opportunists, right? And we’re like, okay, we’re gonna, I’m gonna sell my company, when it reaches maximum value sales reach an absolute peak, you know, the external market is going well, and that’s what I’m going to sell. And the challenge, of course, is, is that it’s very difficult to, to pinpoint that. And the danger is we ride it over the top. And, and, and, and I write about an example that in the book was Rand Fishkin, who built a great company and I had the opportunity to interview him. And he had a company called Moz, which was SEO Software and did about $5 million in revenue. And Rand had the, you know, has been told that a software company like his should be worth roughly four times top line revenue, and he was growing quickly. He was at five, but he expected to be at 10 million in revenue the next year. So in his mind, he was like, You know what, we should be kind of worth around $40 million. So he gets a call from a guy named Brian Halligan, who co-founded HubSpot. And Halligan says, look, we see what you’re doing with SEO Moz. We want to buy your company offered $25 million of cash and HubSpot stock. Fishkin, he’s got 40 numbers in his mind says, We’re thinking more like 40 Halligan says, You can’t do it. You’re only five right now and walking away. Fishkin says lots, okay, I’ve got lots of ideas and invest in a bunch of new products. Those products mostly struggle. And then Fishkin starts to struggle personally, as he described when I interviewed him, and ultimately he was removed from his capital. By the venture capitalists who bought into the business, and the venture capitalists, when they invested use what are called preferred shares, which means that, you know, this is a lawyer, they get a preferred return. And I asked, Fishkin Rand when I spoke with him, I said, like, what are those shares worth? And he said, they may not be worth anything. You know, because of the preferred return the VC gets, and I said, Wow, what, what would that offer have been like from HubSpot, and he’s like, based on the appreciation and HubSpot stock, it would be worth somewhere between 100 and $200 million. And, and I think it’s just emblematic of or illustrative of this idea of writing it over the top. The best time to sell your company is when someone’s buying. And when you get a call from a luminary like Brian Halligan, who offers you five times revenue, it’s time to pay attention. Right. Right. And, and you never know what’s around the corner. You never know, when the next pandemic hits, I think, yeah, I think that’s one of the dangers that we all run into is trying to be a bit too cute. When it comes to timing the sale. Yeah. And if you get approached, you know that from a negotiation perspective, you’re in the driver’s seat, right? And, and the opposite is true. Meaning if you were the one soliciting a bit, you’re, you’re now on your back foot a little bit.
John Corcoran 21:16
And also, so managing your emotions and managing your expectations are kind of inherent in what you just said. And you’ve got this great story from bill to sell, which is written as a parable. At the very end, if I’m remembering correctly, where the person that you’re writing about opens up this envelope that his mentor had him right in the number that he wanted to tell that story?
John Warrillow 21:40
Yeah, I mean, you know, they got the cell, the the protagonist is a guy who runs a marketing agency, and very early, he’s doing about a million bucks in revenue, maybe 150 grand in profit, but it’s lumpy cash flows lump, but he’s being pulled in a million different directions. And as a mentor, you’re right, this guy named Ted says, like, sit out, write down, what’s the dream number, what’s your magic number. And you know, and after a couple of glasses of wine that the protagonist writes down $5 million, and it’s to him at the time, it’s like the, it’s like completely ridiculous number to put down for a company that’s generating a million bucks, and it’s a service business, and it doesn’t make any sense. But he put it in an envelope and he sealed it up, and he kind of put it in a desk and just left it there. years later. The business after they implement things like productizing recurring revenue, piling that owner out of the business, the business does reach a point ultimately, when it’s worth around that much money. And he gets an offer, which is then rescinded by the acquirer, or I should say dropped and it’s in a technique they acquirers often use, called retraining, and retraining happens when you agree to a letter of intent. And then ultimately, the acquire reduces that value that they offered in the letter of intent, sometimes, for reasons that are less than authentic. And so this happens to this character, Alex in the book, and he’s kind of stomping his fist on the table saying dammit, they promised me x. And now they’re only given me x, you know, minus 20%, or whatever it was. And, and the mentor says, tags once you go get that envelope, it’s sitting on your desk, open it up. And sure enough, even the reduced amount is eclipsed what he dreamt up of, and it’s just a cute little story, or I think it’s a cute little story to remind entrepreneurs that we tend to move the goalposts right. And, and yet, when you reach what we call the freedom point, which is the point where you built enough liquid assets, that the sale of your company, sorry, it reaches, like the business that you built is worth enough that if you sold it, your after tax proceeds would fund the kind of life that you dream of. And once you reach that point, it’s worth asking, Do I want to stay on the hamster wheel? Do I want to risk that financial freedom for the next tranche of growth next plateau, because effectively, every day you continue to run your company where it’s like 7080 90% of your net worth, and you’re effectively risking what is freedom for something that you may not actually desire? Or necessarily find a worthwhile trade off. So it’s something called a freedom point, we talk a lot about right.
John Corcoran 24:23
And there was there was an interesting interview, I don’t remember which one it was recently that I listened to of yours, where one of your guests talked about, you know, the oftentimes the the EBITDA multiple that people get for the business is just beyond what they would get what they would earn in a couple years. So if it’s like a three to four x multiple, then they’re gonna earn that back in the next couple of years. But if it’s six or seven, then that is beyond that. So then it becomes more worthwhile for them to sell. Can you talk about that?
John Warrillow 24:57
Yes, no, I mean, yeah, so sometimes When they get it off when somebody gets an offer of three times profit as an example, they’re like, why would I bother selling it three years? I’ll make this money. I counter that with. Number one. You never know what’s coming down the pike. You never know what the next Black Swan is. Yeah, exactly. And so three times may actually be a great outcome. I’m reminded of a guy named Sean Ashman I interviewed, he’s, like, years ago, now, it’s still one of the most popular episodes on our show. He built a little IT services company and built it up to I think it was like two or $3 million in revenue, he had decent profits, but nothing crazy. And he decided on his 39th birthday, by the age of 40, he wanted to live on a sailboat. And that we had a vision board and he decided that he wanted to live on a sailboat. Fair enough, he lives in Denver, and so he’s landlocked he figures. So he goes and gets a broker and they shut off, come back with an offer between two and three times profit. And Ashman decides to take it. And I interviewed oschmann. And again, I’m expecting him to be a little bit disappointed. Two or three is like it’s not a huge life changing amount of money. And he says, No, I’m happy as a clam, I’m living the life that I dreamed of. Right, I’m living on this sailboat. And so I think it comes back to having a pull factor having something that’s really pulling you forward. And that sense of being on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, having the first rung that you can never fall off, have you built enough wealth that you know, you don’t, you’re not worried about food and shelter for the rest of your life, there’s tremendous value in that. So I think, and there’s also practically tax efficiencies where you sell your business, if you’re making profits, you know, that’s gonna be, it’s gonna be, you’re gonna have to pay income tax on that. Whereas if you sell your business, there’s some way to structure it that you have either a low tax or even in some cases and no tax liquidity event. So, you know, I think it’s short sighted to say, two or three times, why would I bother selling? I think there’s lots of reasons to still sell even if that’s the value that you’re able to get, I have
John Corcoran 26:59
to ask you a nerdy technical question. If you oblige me for a second, but it is good. In almost every episode, you asked if they valued the business on the basis of a multiple of EBITDA, or a multiple of revenue. Can you explain the distinction between the two and why that’s important?
John Warrillow 27:17
Yeah, for sure. So simply put a multiple of EBIT as a multiple of your earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization. In other words, your profit multiple of revenue is when you’re applying a multiple to your top line revenue, not your bottom line profit. So let’s just say you have a company generating a million dollars of revenue, and it makes $200,000 a year in profit, and you sell for three multiple, well, three times 200,600 $1,000. If you were to, if you were to sell that same company for three multiple of revenue, your sale price or three $3 million. So it’s a huge difference in terms of value. And companies that have recurring revenue tend to get much higher valuations are oftentimes the ones when you hear about a multiple of revenue, it’s generally recurring revenue businesses, software as a service businesses, but not always, I mean, I’m reminded the guys in the security company business, they have two forms of revenue installation and recurring right now a typical acquire will pay about 75 cents for every dollar of installation revenue at about $2 for every dollar of recurring revenue. So almost three x more per dollar, or recurring. So usually, businesses with recurring revenue can often get multiples of revenue. If they’re growing faster.
John Corcoran 28:39
We’re running a little short on time. So I do want to ask them long winded? No, I’m enjoying the topic. So I do want to ask you, what are you seeing? We’re recording this in January 2021. We’re about a year into this pandemic, the types of selling trends you’ve seen over the last year of observing businesses being sold, probably many at the bottom and the top.
John Warrillow 29:03
Yeah, in fact, we’ve actually just done some data analysis on this. So we run something called a value builder system, which you mentioned in your intro, we have entrepreneurs come in and they do an in like an intake questionnaire about their company. And we looked at people who completed that questionnaire the eight months prior to COVID, and eight months during COVID. And we just recently analyzed that data and two things popped. One is that business owners during COVID, those that filled out the completion to complete the questionnaire during COVID have brought forward their sell by date by 20%, meaning they’re planning to sell their business 20% sooner. The second, arguably more interesting fact is that the appetite to pass their business down to their kids has dropped through the floor. It’s gone from like one in five down to like 11% of business owners it’s dropped precipitously. And in the other direction, the percentage of business owners that have planned to sell their business to a third party has gone up. It’s now Over 60% and so, you know, I don’t know the answer of why that would be my guess is it’s probably just the you know, the the first the stress of the last year, heart that on on their kids, but we’re seeing a lot of activity and of course, interest rates being so low allows a private equity groups in particular to acquire and borrow money to acquire businesses. So it’s a very active m&a market right now.
John Corcoran 30:25
Interesting. As I said, we’re running out of time, but I’m gonna wrap things up with two questions. I was asked to be one big fan of gratitude. So as you look around at other peers of yours, contemporaries who are operating in your space, or who you have operated in your space over the years, who do you respect, who you admire? Who do you look to? And you like the work that they’re doing?
John Warrillow 30:45
I’m a huge fan of Tim Ferriss. I think he is, he’s really reinvented himself, I had the chance to write up a blog post for him. Around the time I wrote, Built to Sell and it to this day is it mean, it’s the single most effective PR thing that we’ve ever done to sell books, that was back when he was really focused on,
John Corcoran 31:06
you know, the four hour workweek and the idea of building the muse, etc.
John Warrillow 31:06
He’s done an incredible evolution. And as you probably know, he’s done. You know, he’s done a lot for mental health that uses psychedelics, he’s, I mean, his podcast has become this global sensation. And I’m just really, if this sounds corny to say, I’m proud of him, as it sounds like a father, I’m certainly not. I’m enamored by, I’m impressed with. And I just think he’s done an amazing job of reinventing himself contributing, he certainly doesn’t need to work anymore. He’s made lots of money as a venture as an angel investor, but he’s continuing to serve his listeners. And I think that’s really admirable.
John Corcoran 31:47
It’s really amazing, all the different entrepreneurs who will say they were inspired by reading his book, and that means dramatically different life choices based on that book. So it’s definitely had a huge impact. And that’s absolutely, and then, you know, let’s pretend we’re at an awards banquet, much like the Oscars or the Emmys, and you, John are receiving an award for lifetime achievement for everything you’ve done up until this point. And of course, we always think of family and friends, but you know, beyond that, who are there any mentors? Are there any business partners? Are there any coaches, you know, any teachers, anything like that? anything along those lines that you would acknowledge in your remarks? Yeah, it’s
John Warrillow 32:21
funny, I’m not gonna let you get away with not letting me take my my, my old man. So my dad was a company guy, he worked at a big company. And he used to come home at night and talk about, you know, what it was like to work for a big company. And sometimes there was a modicum of jealousy, but the entrepreneurs that he interacted with, in his life, say, oh, wouldn’t it be great to be an entrepreneur? And, and so he exposed me to entrepreneurship from a young age. In fact, his company was the sponsor of the entrepreneur, Ernst and Young Award, the entrepreneur, the Year Award, and he invited me to come as his guest to this, this big ceremony. And he was like him, they were a corporate partner sponsor. He wasn’t an entrepreneur, but he exposed me to these stories. And I just fell in love with the stories. And I used to, I used to think about my dad a little bit as a, you know, like, Oh, I wish you hadn’t been a corporate guy, maybe why didn’t you be an entrepreneur. But when I actually learned more about his life story, he left England when he was 23, with virtually nothing, and picked up and moved to Canada and kind of found a job, found a house like basically did what entrepreneurs do, I basically invented myself from nothing into something. And so he took a very entrepreneurial leap, even though he doesn’t acknowledge it to this day. But I think in retrospect, he did. And so I’m very deeply grateful for what he did for me. And and yeah, there you go. I’m thinking my father,
John Corcoran 33:56
great the art of selling your business winning strategies and secret hacks for exiting on top as the name of the book value builder system. Also, where can people go to John to connect with you and learn more about the work that you do?
John Warrillow 34:10
Yeah, all roads lead to builttosell.com. So that’s where that’s where you find the podcast. If you’re interested. You can subscribe. We’ll get you a new episode every week. Excellent.
John Corcoran 34:20
Thanks so much, John.
John Warrillow 34:21
Thank you, John.
Outro 34:23
Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution and be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.
