David Bartholomeusz 11:04
Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the ones that I was just talking about this with someone yesterday is, and I even so young as I think I was 12 months old, I I turned over accidentally, I believe, I don’t really remember it. Well, I turned over my sister’s bassinet, she was about 14 days old. And there was a big drama, and I was sent him, you know, take into my room and put in my room and she died that night. And it wasn’t to do with me, she died and but I made that mean, somehow at a subconscious level that I’d killed her and I screwed up my family. And then everything bad that had happened in my family was actually because I had killed my sister and a whole bunch of things. And it really, you know, it really impacted me. But at the same time, I couldn’t stop being me when I was a little kid at the primary school. I remember the other boys at the school, the older boys told me that doing ballet was for posters, I think is the word that they used at that time. And I disagreed I thought that ballet was just a wonderful way to express what was going on in my body. And they gave me a few mornings, but then they took me aside and they remember they rubbed my face on the side of the building until it bled. And I never felt like I belonged after that experience. And so coming into high school, there was a rush to belong, and I just completely failed to meet that mark. And then I remember, in my last year of high school, I somehow became the head prefect. So the school captain. And I was doing all these things to try and be of service in the school. And clearly some people disagreed and I still remember this experience, which at the time I was laughing it off. But in hindsight, it’s deeply traumatic. Some of the stronger students tied me up. And then they tied me to there was a central sort of pole in the middle of the school, like it was a basketball ring. But it could be seen by all of the classes around it sort of in a square, and they tied me to that pole and strip the strip my top half and then poured rubbish bins of empty rubbish over me, and then wrapped me in toilet paper. And I was lifted to stand there through the whole of that lesson than the whole of lunch. And there were teachers walking past and laughing too. And, you know, this, you know, I’ve been injured by the by those things. And I didn’t, really until I started to unpack it, I didn’t realize the extent to which that urge for me to belong is so strong, because I’ve had these experiences of, of trying to be me but still belong and so often being not just rejected, but for monetized for, for being me. Yeah,
John Corcoran 14:09
how did you end up going into the entertainment business from that because you could see people, you know, going the other direction, but to be the center of attention, you know, and a performer being entertainment. It’s kind of an interesting trajectory from someone who had experienced that kind of trauma.
David Bartholomeusz 14:32
I think, you know, for me, at my heart, I’m an explorer I like to explore. And one of the places that you can explore forever and never map at all is inside. And I think the really that’s what really drove me as an entertainer was this idea that there are stories that we can tell. And I discovered quite early that you could tell stories through music, and so becoming an entertainer in the world of music was really powerful for me because it allowed me to observe other people exploring these stories with me. And so really, I think at heart, I’m not so much an entertainer as an explorer. And I like to guide people in these inner spaces, if that makes sense, help them go inside themselves through these stories. So when I’m, when I’m telling a story, or making a musical performance, or I’m mixing music or any of those things, it’s really out of a desire to invite someone else into a well, so that they can explore that world for themselves and to be a helpful guide. And, and,
John Corcoran 15:45
you know, you’ve done some a lot of facilitation work also, which you’ve described as similar to the professional entertainment work that you do, that you’ve done. So explain to me the connection between those how you see those similarities?
David Bartholomeusz 16:02
Well, to me, they’re exactly the same thing. Because really, at a deeper level, what’s driving me is the desire to be a worthy guide to other people to say, this is a space that I’m familiar with. And the space is this, it’s the internal space of the space inside, it’s to say, it’s actually it’s safe to go inside there, it’s safe to explore. But if you would prefer to have someone working alongside you that’s familiar with the space so that if you see something you don’t know if it’s a problem or not, you can say, is that a problem, or you can sort of gauge and feel comfortable to explore it? So for me, I think it’s a thing that people naturally gravitate towards me for is that I’m, I love taking people on journeys inside themselves, whether that’s a, you know, an EOS style, you know, structure or he’s a model, let’s go and explore the leadership journey that’s possible through that model. I don’t really mind you know what the model is, but it’s really great to have a model that we can then use as the substrate to drive this internal exploration of how can I show up in service for other people? How can I show up as a leader of leaders? How can I show up in the world in ways that are more authentic of my deeper or Hidden Self? And I guess, you know, for me, that journey to rediscover those hidden parts of me, is powerful for me. And so I guess, naturally, I want to make it available for other people as well, because of how powerful it’s been for
John Corcoran 17:39
It’s funny for someone who has sought to belong, there’s one group of people that you don’t want to belong to, and that’s being a coach, because we were talking beforehand about how you’re describing what you do. And I said, Well, it sounds like you’re a coach. He said, No, no, I think being a coach to someone or saying your coach, someone is offensive. So
David Bartholomeusz 18:01
is our offensive yet, but I’m getting activated already.
John Corcoran 18:06
I’m intending to trigger you just to get it.
David Bartholomeusz 18:09
I’ve been reactivated in this space. And you know, I think being a coaches or is all good. And well, this is not about being coached, I don’t feel like me being a coach is an authentic expression of who I am. And so, for me, what I’m really concerned about with coaching is this idea that someone else will understand what’s going on inside me better than I will. It just doesn’t make any sense to me and for me, because the motivation is always around the human insight or the human, it’s not even the insight, it’s not about getting anywhere, it’s about this confidence, and this desire to explore inside to explore all of that internal space and to really get those hidden, beautiful parts of ourselves. In my experience, that doesn’t come from an external expert coming in. And an external expert is really, really great if I want to lift my profit percentage or some of those sorts of things. But I guess my discovery over time has been that a lot of those external desires to you know, have more money or to, you know, have a higher profit percentage or to have a bit of business or to have a better relationship or you need all of those things. But if I am willing to go deep and they are often desires attached to deeper drives, to actually rediscover who I thought I could be, or probably more close to my heart to discover the light in the room and the emerging possibility of how I can show up for other human beings in this moment, in the way that the world is going. You know, for me, that’s the thing that really drives me and makes me you know, when people say, can you come May I say, Well, I can, but I won’t, I just won’t, I refuse to coach you. Because in, I’m only interested in creating experiences for other human beings that allow them to experience this internal spaces a deeply safe and secure space for themselves that of which they are their own master. And when they can experience that the joy that I experienced in observing someone crossed that threshold, that possibility that they could be their own master again, it’s just too beautiful. I’m not I’m not willing to have someone make an extra $10 million and miss that trick. And that’s how I did that. I made that money, but I missed that trick. Hmm.
John Corcoran 20:44
I mean, listening to you describe it here, I can’t help but think that a part of that is, is grounded in your
David Bartholomeusz 20:52
experiences as a child? Hmm. You know, the funny bit is that, you know, I’m just I’m, I’m externally externalizing all of those unmet needs onto other people with the individuals. So a good
John Corcoran 21:05
way, right, and a good way. Service by being the guys I needed.
David Bartholomeusz 21:10
Yeah, exactly. But at the same time, it’s not fair for me to project that onto other people as well, I have to be careful of that, and actually really sharp in the moment and try to deeply understand what this person is driving it and what they need, what their needs are, not to try and get them to somehow emulate the journey that I wish I could have taken. But I never got to tie. Hmm.
John Corcoran 21:35
Does that mean that you need to have a personal connection to what they’re going through? In other words, if it was a, if the person you’re working with has a need that you can’t relate to, is it hard for you to in your words, go on that journey with them?
David Bartholomeusz 21:49
Actually, it’s easier, because the more emotionally invested I get in their particular story, the more I get sucked into that story, because that’s the thing that I realized in my own life is that, you know, I talk about, you know, oh, it’s awful to have rotten rubbish dumped over you and be ridiculed and look at the teachers and wonder why they’re not intervening. But actually, when I unpack that, that’s all story about what happened. What happened is just what happened and it happened in the past, it doesn’t have to govern what my future looks like, it’s actually open that an option for me at any time to say, reality is emerging in this moment. And I have such a capacity to show up in this moment of service to others, as a fully expected Express version of who I am right now, I don’t need to actually go and repair all these traumas of the past and go and nurture my inner child, yeah, that can be helpful to flesh it out and get some understanding of what’s going on under the surface. But when I can show up authentically in the moment, and just have capacity to be in the space of that emerging moment with another human being, that’s when I’m being of maximal service and being most most, who I am, in this moment, I actually learn more and make more progress in my life, by showing up authentically in the moment for another human being than any amount of counseling and navel gazing. And so it’s really interesting to you know, there’s, there’s almost a bit of tough love in there for my inner child in that way, if that makes sense to say, I’m really happy to provide a space for you inside to be whole and complete. But out here, what’s most important for me is to maintain the rituals, the habits, the rhythms of a human being who can show up in the moment last night, I was up till midnight, because I was so angry about an agreement that that I’ve just seen, which says, essentially, you know, there was a persona that I was really interested in inhabiting. And I thought I could give these people some money, and they would elevate me and give me this title. And it was a mistake. It was just a mistake, I was just looking to belong, and I was willing to use money to try and belong. But whenever the agreement, I just went, this is not providing me with an authentic avenue to express who I am, this is restricting me and saying, you have to do this in this way. And so that deeper part of me was all upset and saying, just quietly, there’s something wrong about this is not right. This is not right. And I only figured it out at about 1215 Last night, but I I use this thing called the Oxford group, which all of the AI and all those things have sort of come from this Oxford methodology of sort of stepping out those defects inside myself that have kind of precipitated this upset and realizing that sort of the assumption that I’ve made the mistake that I’ve made inside myself or the story I’ve got going, that that’s causing me to behave like that. And what I realized was that Grab onto this persona, rather than just show up in authentic service of other human beings in terms of strategy and alignment, which is the stuff that I’m really, really, that I have so much capacity to show up for other people, whether it’s people within my company group, or other members of the community, when they come to me and say, I want to discover what’s going on inside me that’s in the way of creating a simple way of being of service to other people. And being fully expressed in this business that I’m creating or in this not for profit that I’m creating, or whatever it is that they’re creating this entity that they’re creating. Often, there’s that dissonance that’s going on where they’re there, they see this opportunity, but there’s that there may be that quiet voice inside saying, don’t miss the growth opportunity for yourself in amongst the weeds of the day to day of that business that you’re building, use this business as substrate to discover a deeper expression of who you really are that beautiful, beautiful part of yourself that might be hidden. And that’s a different journey. That’s an internal leadership and exploration journey.
John Corcoran 26:18
Speaking of leadership, you said something that I thought was really insightful, reflecting on yourself. Earlier today, when we were talking, you know, you have spent so much time devoting volunteering, spending a lot of time different communities, especially in the entrepreneurs, organization, volunteering in different capacities. But you said that, you know, I think that I keep returning to roles in the path of leadership, meaning, you know, different leadership roles, helping to guide different programs, because you want people to think I’m an authority, a leader, etc. A feeling of not belonging, but understanding reflect a little more on that.
David Bartholomeusz 27:02
Yeah, it’s, it’s so crushing to look at how many leadership roles I’ve served in them. It’s so interesting, though, that
John Corcoran 27:12
it’s about age, by the way of like, five, six point font eight and a half 6.5 is insane,
David Bartholomeusz 27:18
desperate attempts to for people to feel like I’m an authority and, and it’s just, it’s, it’s so interesting to see how addicted I how caught I am in that cycle of wanting to have some sort of external validation that I am of use to other leaders that, you know, there’s this saying that leaders create more leaders. And I want to have this external validation that other people think that I’m creating more leaders. But really, that’s what I do. every waking moment, you know, I got in trouble with my wife this morning, because she likes to make toasted sandwiches for our seven year old, because it’s a lovely thing to do, it’s a lovely way to be of service. But I don’t like her doing that, because it stops our seven year old from making her own sandwiches, you know, I want to leave the lead air inside my seven year old and my wife wants to nurture the seven year old. And so, you know, we were adults there. And, you know, I was willing to get in the bad books with her and have her be a bit upset with me to defend that position of saying leading leaders is the thing that I do. And I can’t do that when you’re doing the things that she needs to do for her. And to see that I guess that deeper value inside myself, but it’s been also so. So telling for me to see how many roles I’ve taken on and I’ve turned that into an egoic grab an identity. You know, I want to be the chairman of the Entrepreneurs’ Organization. And I want everyone to see that I’m the leader of leaders. And there’s a quiet voice inside me that consistently says, No, you’re not a leader, you’re an explorer, you don’t want that. But you have this, this egoic desire for it. That’s not your best path. And so I don’t go there. But that voice that ego, it doesn’t go away. It’s still it’s it says, you know, I say thanks for sharing and acquires down and then the very next opportunity, it jumps back in there because you know, there are these, these traumatic experiences that have made me create these rules of thumb that no longer serve me, which is, you know, you need to be useful and other people need to know that you’re useful and they need to understand how the tribe can’t survive without you. Otherwise, they’ll cast you out because you’re weird.
John Corcoran 29:44
Otherwise, I’ll tie you up to a pole.
David Bartholomeusz 29:47
Exactly. You know, I’ve got lots of evidence there that says, you know, just being the best leader that they’ve ever had is not enough. You’ll also need to conform to their expectations of you otherwise you will be I’m marginalized and ridiculed and maligned and cast aside, that’s the
John Corcoran 30:05
fear is amazing how it’s amazing how many amazing isn’t the right word, but, but you’re, you’re so conscious of it. And yet it still is attention for you this this tension between being explore, and wanting to be a leader to get that external validation.
David Bartholomeusz 30:20
But that’s a healthy relationship with a, with a part of me that’s designed to keep me alive. You know, especially here in Australia there, you know, other than the red backs and the snakes, there’s actually not I’m not, I’m not ever really in any real danger here. You know, it’s a very protective social environment here. And so my ego is kind of like this thing that, you know, really, other than stopping me from crossing the road while checking my phone, it doesn’t really have that much of a role. But it’s, it’s still there, and it still has a part to play. And, you know, I thank God every day. Because also, you know, this morning, I had that conversation with my wife and I risked friendship to stand up for a value of mine, which is empowerment, you know, for me that, that, that value of, you know, we exist for each other, to empower each other to help each other discover who we can be. That’s, that’s a really deep value for me. And if my ego wasn’t there, I wouldn’t have you know, taken a stand for my seven year old being a leader in our own life. That’s great. For a purpose.
John Corcoran 31:30
Yeah, that’s great. Listen, dude, this has been great. I want to wrap things up. I know we’re short on time on wrap things up. Last question. I’m a big fan of gratitude. So you know, if you look around at your peers and contemporaries, however you want to define that perhaps others in your industry, perhaps others, you know, through the EO community, how do you spell activity, admire that’s doing good work these
David Bartholomeusz 31:51
days. The first person that comes to mind is is the goddess of governance. My wife, Sarah Bartholomeusz, you know, she completes me in a way that I could never have picked. And every year I learn more of why they sit on our wedding day. We hope today’s the day that you love each other the least, because she so willing to take a stand for her values, and that empowers me to do the same. And, you know, she’s got this this podcast where she talks to people about purpose higher than profit. And I consistently see her do that in her own life. And it’s just, it keeps me grounded, it keeps my ego, where it belongs, and keeps bringing me bringing me back to that natural part of myself, that part that has capacity to show up as my best self for other people. So I’m really grateful to have her, we take walks in the evening and those walks the highlight of my day. The second person is a man who really showed up for me at a point in my life where I was starting to understand that I was not a leader of leaders that I was a guide, an internal guide, and he really helped me to see that his name is Brian Brault, he was I think the global chairman, he was global chairman of EO and he was the director of the learning committees when I was sort of just first coming into the global committees and I just showed up so terribly. In, in, in those firsts in about the first 24 months, I was just so my ego was all out there just going this is an opportunity for me to build, you know, respect amongst my peers. And I was so activated normal that that was just yelling and bouncing off the walls, and he never ever told me off. He just modeled this patient, authentic human being showing up in the space of service for other human beings. I’m getting emotional, just thinking about how much how much self confidence it takes to trust that your modeling of behavior is noticed by the deeper part of another human being. Because for me, it became the model by which I operated after that once I made the realization for myself. The other person I really like to shout out to is one of my forum Max. He’s just been in my forum for for a long time, and he’s very different to me. His name is Toby strong. And he has just consistently shown up as his authentic self in forum. And so I’ve been able to discover so many things I don’t know I don’t know about myself because he can take me to a part of a space inside me He that I don’t even know exists, because he’s just so different to me. And he’s got such a direct way of bringing me into his world. He does it every, every 30 days, he brings me into his world. And by doing that, he shows up exactly the way that I want to show up for other human beings in every moment, which is to inspire and empower them to come into a world and discover how they are in that world, and to be able to explore that world safely. So for me, he is the model of who I want to be in every moment in in every moment that he does that for me.
John Corcoran 35:39
That’s great. David, thank you so much for your time, where can people go to learn more about you and connect with you and reach out if they have questions?
David Bartholomeusz 35:47
I think if my name is on the top of this podcast, David Bartholomeusz, you can just email [email protected]. It’s just my full name, [email protected] will link with me on LinkedIn or Facebook or any of those social mediums? I think one of the things for me is, I’m an explorer. And so I don’t have these sort of, I guess I don’t have these productize ways of experiencing my journey, if that makes sense. But I use all these different existing frameworks to help people experience journeys with me together. And so really, I think if people just reach out to me and tell me, authentically who they are, then I can then immediately sort of stand beside them and enjoy the journey with them. It’s one of the things that makes EO so dear to me is that I feel like I get to do that with everyone in EO in every moment.
John Corcoran 36:38
That’s great. David, thank you so much.
Outro 36:47
Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.