John Corcoran 12:34
And I want to talk about SAGA and where that fits in. And that that part of your journey. Before I get to that though, I want to ask about so you launched your first blog in 1999. And you’re doing early online interviews that you’ve recorded and that you published even pre like before the term podcasting was even a thing. I started a blog, actually, I guess you’d call it a blog with my dad in 1999. When I was working at the White House, as kind of like a side hustle using I think Netscape Navigator or something had some like web design, kind of kind of that was built into it. But it was super janky. Back in the day. How did you end up coming about creating a blog back in 99?
Chip Griffin 13:18
Yeah, so what happened was, I got married, my wife was from New England, I was from New England, we wanted to move back to New England. And so in the transition from DC to New Hampshire, as you know, all good political people, you never call yourself unemployed, you always call yourself a consultant, which is, which is how that first agency started, I was fortunate to sign a client before I even packed up the U haul van. But But I also realized that being in Hampshire, I had to have a way to stay in touch with my network that I built over eight years in DC. And so I created what you would today call a blog back then, it was just called a website called primary scoop. And it provided information about the New Hampshire primary, which is something that’s extremely popular in DC, everybody’s wanting to know what’s going on. And back in 1999, it was really difficult to get on the ground information. There just weren’t as many online news sources that could feed you that and so I filled that gap and kept my network active and was able to use it to generate new business. So it was a it was a it was a good way to get involved. But it was certainly not as easy to do as it is today.
John Corcoran 14:19
So were you monetizing it, you’re writing the articles, you’re doing the reporting, you’re publishing it, and you’re monetizing it by some kind of consulting on the back end, is that right? It wasn’t like an ad based model.
Chip Griffin 14:31
There were ads on it because they were some sort of low cost ad network, sort of the old school, the old school equivalent Google Google Ads weren’t around them, but it was similar to that. And so that made a few bucks a month, but it was not. It was it was by no means a real income stream. It was really just something that I use to continue to cultivate my network and so was able to generate consulting business and agency business for me. Okay, so
John Corcoran 14:54
this was going into the 90 90,000 cycle when you did this. So this was
Chip Griffin 14:59
would have been for the two was the 2000, New Hampshire primary
John Corcoran 15:01
leading into Gore v. Bush and Bradley was running against scores. And I can’t remember who else was running against Bush, but there was a bunch of them. And what was your best scoop during that cycle? Oh, I didn’t think I was gonna ask that, did you?
Chip Griffin 15:18
Really, I mean, there are a few. I mean, the really the big thing that we are that I became known for was I analyzed FEC records Federal Election Commission records to look at the salaries of the people involved in the campaigns. And again, that was much more difficult to get back then. But I had experienced in doing that kind of research. And so I published a list of all of the salaries for all of the presidential campaigns, and that got huge publicity and various media outlets around the world picked it up. And so I guess that would probably be the biggest, it’s not truly a scoop, because it was public information. But nobody ever compiled and done the math, because the reports don’t show you a salary number, they just show what you were paid by the pay period. And so I had to sort of reverse engineer what the frequency was, and all that kind of stuff.
John Corcoran 16:02
Now, I’m gonna, I’m gonna be a devil’s advocate here. So that’s awesome, that you’re getting that attention and all that kind of stuff. Did it lead, did that naturally lead into the type of consulting work that you wanted? Because I’m thinking like, Okay, well, then. So then people contact you and for you to do more FEC digging or,
Chip Griffin 16:21
you know, that was one of the services that the agency department Strategy Group offered. Okay, do corporate and opposition research. Okay, so, so if it didn’t make sense, then so it absolutely made sense. But it was also, it was also just a way to be in the inbox of my network. So, you know, as you know, a big part of business development is awareness and making sure that people think oh, right, yeah, yeah. And so almost any way that you can get into their inbox on a regular basis can be helpful. Yeah, as long as they’re paying attention to it.
John Corcoran 16:52
Yeah. So I feel like I was an early adopter by starting to do interviews that are recorded and published online, around 2009 2010 timeframe, but you’re doing it in 99 2000. Who were you interviewing? And what was the grand plan behind it? Or was there grand plan behind it?
Chip Griffin 17:11
There was no grand plan behind it. I just I’ve always enjoyed me as a kid, I used to have a cassette recorder and a microphone. And I would do play by play for sports games that I was watching on TV. Nobody ever listened to them, because there was no way to distribute it. But I’ve always enjoyed the audio medium. And so it was partly just experimenting with it. And so I went to RadioShack and got basically what’s a phone tap? Because you had to unscrew the mouthpiece on the phone and put it in there it was it was a mess to do to record it. You recorded it through the phone line. Okay, yeah, you record it through a regular telephone. And so it was it was a very clunky way of doing it. But mostly what I interviewed was I interviewed political operatives in New Hampshire and some journalists. Those were the typical guests that I had.
John Corcoran 17:56
Okay, and explain. So a little background on me in 2004. I think it was January 2004. For the New Hampshire primary I was still working in politics was right before I went back to law school. And on my own dime, I flew to New Hampshire because I wanted to experience what it was like. And you know, there’s a saying that Washington DC is kind of like Hollywood, but for nerds or something like that. I’ve heard that before. Well, the primary and in New Hampshire’s like that on steroids, it’s, it’s the it’s kind of like Coachella for the political junkies. So talk a little bit about you’re from New Hampshire, you live in New Hampshire now, but talk a little bit about what that environment is like for people that don’t know it.
Chip Griffin 18:38
It’s wild, because for a few weeks, every four years, you have everybody who is anybody in politics, whether it’s an operative or a journalist or a candidate or an office holder somewhere else who might possibly want to ever run for president or might want to be Secretary of State or something, they all show up. And they all come in. And because New Hampshire is a very retail state, it’s a small state, it’s relatively easy to get around. All of this is is hand to hand. I mean, you can go into a coffee shop in Concord, New Hampshire, just before the New Hampshire primary and you’ll run into celebrities. I remember one time I was in there just having coffee one morning and Sam Waterston came up to my table from law and order and said hello and wanted to lobby for whatever candidate he was supporting at the time. I don’t I don’t even recall who that was. But But that’s a very early effect. It’s probably more of my memory.
John Corcoran 19:32
There’s so many different candidates that come through really so many
Chip Griffin 19:35
candidates who come through and it was probably this was probably 2000 or 2004. So, you know, I’m old enough that that’s hard to remember.
John Corcoran 19:43
Yeah. That’s really cool. Yeah, no, it’s it’s amazing experience being there. And of course, it’s January in New Hampshire, so it’s freezing cold while this is happening.
Chip Griffin 19:52
Yeah, it is not the most hospitable time to visit our state. You know, usually we encourage the fall, Summer, maybe even mud season. I mean, I’m sorry, spring
John Corcoran 20:00
Yeah, well, I mean, it’s in the primary has been moving, you know, further and further back in the calendar. That’s part of it, too. But it’s also something that, you know, the Granite State really prides right takes great pride in.
Chip Griffin 20:13
Absolutely. And it’ll be interesting to see what happens, because obviously the the political parties are playing games with the calendars every so every year that happens, always always does. But I suspect there may be more impact this time, but we’ll see.
John Corcoran 20:26
Yeah, yeah. And so, and you’ve continued the podcasting over the years, you continue to do it to this day, as it has evolved and changed? How has it kind of changed your you know, or served your purposes over the years?
Chip Griffin 20:40
Well, it’s gotten so much easier, obviously. And it’s become something where as we’re doing today, you have video typically along with it. So it gives you an additional format to distribute in. And so I think there’s, there’s huge advantages to doing podcasts now. So I encourage a lot of the agencies that I work with, to consider podcasts, because it’s a great way to demonstrate the expertise they have and to get to know new people. So but it is, to me it is it is a great medium, because it’s a great starting point for all other kinds of content. So if you’re if you don’t love writing, to a podcast that gives you audio, it gives you video, it gives you the ability to have an article generated from it. There’s just so much that can can happen with it. It’s so much easier today than it was 25 years ago.
John Corcoran 21:23
Yeah, for sure. That’s why I’ve been at it for as long as I have. I just love it. It’s great to meet interesting people like yourself. So SAGA, which also has a pro level to it as well. How did you start that about 2018? How did that come about? What what inspired that?
Chip Griffin 21:39
So for many, many years, I’ve been having informal conversations with agency owners who would ask me questions, because they knew that I had been successful in some of my businesses, I’d sold someone so they would ask for advice on, you know, whether it’s pricing or profitability, or perhaps selling their business someday. And so I would share those experiences free of charge. And as I was exiting karma, I thought about what I wanted to do next. And I said, you know, I really enjoy what I can do in working with agencies. And so initially, the business name was actually agency leadership advisors, because I was working with all different kinds of agencies. But then when March of 2020, came around, it became obvious to me that there was a real challenge, particularly for small agencies who didn’t have the knowledge base and infrastructure that larger or even mid sized agencies had. And because everybody was now willing to have these conversations by zoom, that that I couldn’t get them to do, frankly, prior to March of 2020. with any regularity, I was able to start economically serving those kinds of businesses around the world. And so I transitioned to SAGA at that point where I could be a resource for small agencies, not just here in the US where I could hop on a plane or getting a car and go see them, but but ones around the world. And so now I work with agencies in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, and, of course, the United States. And that’s it’s a great experience for me building off of that international experience that I had previously. But it’s also a great experience, because I can help people who didn’t really have access to that in a meaningful way before.
John Corcoran 23:07
And what are some of the agencies you’re working with? Now? What are their challenges today, as we record this in May of 2023? What are some of the challenges they’re grappling with? Yeah. So
Chip Griffin 23:20
I mean, I think, you know, top of the list is that most agency owners don’t have a clear vision for what they want from the business. Most agencies have started because someone was a freelancer, they ended up taking on more work than they could handle. So they brought in some contractors and eventually hired employees. And so everything’s going forward by inertia. And so the first thing I always do with an agency owner is sit down with them and say, Okay, what are you actually trying to get from this, because if you’re going to take on all of the risk, all of the stress that comes with being a business owner, you need to be getting what you want from it, and not what someone else tells you, you should want from it. And, and so working with them to help them do that I think sets the agency off in the right direction. I think that’s the starting point for just about any agency owner.
John Corcoran 23:59
Yeah. And agencies today are able, maybe not all of them are doing this, but they’re able to serve just like you clients all over the globe. So that certainly changed things for agencies.
Chip Griffin 24:10
Absolutely. And so you need to understand who do you want to serve? How much money do you want to make? How many hours do you want to work, what flexibility you’re looking for? A lot of agency owners, particularly if they’re newer, they may need that flexibility for family things and all that. And so you need to be designing your business around that and not feeling like geez, well, this is what I’m supposed to do next. Because no two agencies are exactly the same. You should be building something that serves your needs. Otherwise, go get a job somewhere else where someone else can boss you around.
John Corcoran 24:39
And it’s really interesting. There’s, you know, agency is such a broad term and there’s so many different flavors of agencies out there because I see some out there that they’re all in Minneapolis, they’re all their employees are made out. They all come into the office, you know, where it’s a hire. There are other ones that are kind of a hybrid format or there’s like us where we have a team we have both a mess Like an international staff that, you know, are all over the globe are completely remote. And, you know, we want it to be that way. So it’s really interesting how many different structures you can have as an agency today.
Chip Griffin 25:12
Yeah. And I think that the key is to understand what you want, and then create a public identity for that agency that you can share with other people. Because I think that’s the that’s the next place that agencies tend to fall down is they can’t clearly articulate what it is that they do and who they serve. And if you don’t have that clear identity and positioning, it becomes really difficult to grow in a meaningful way. Because then you’re just taking along whatever business happens to wander across your doorstep.
John Corcoran 25:37
So you’ve mentioned a couple of the mistakes that agencies make today. What other sorts of mistakes do you see agencies making that are tripping them up or that are holding them back?
Chip Griffin 25:48
Yeah, after those first two, I think that the next biggest one would be the inability to price correctly. And this comes in a whole bunch of different flavors, but a lot of it comes down to agencies don’t understand how they’re actually spending their time working for clients. And so that may be because of scope creep, which we often talk about in the agency world. But it may be that they just didn’t do a good job of estimating in advance. A lot of this comes down to painful things are less comfortable things like time tracking. And you really do need to do that in order to understand how profitable your different projects are, because you want to get more ideal clients who are actually paying you what you deserve, and are helping you to earn the profits that you deserve. And so you need to really focus in on those kinds of things, because that will allow you to price both competitively and profitably, which is what leads to growth. So what are
John Corcoran 26:38
some of the growth opportunities that you’re seeing in the agency world these days, obviously, May of 2023. Everyone’s talking about, you know, AI, that’s a popular topic. But an economy is a little bit a little weird over the last six months. So that’s affecting businesses in different ways. But what are some growth opportunities that you’re seeing people pursuing?
Chip Griffin 26:58
Yeah, so obviously, a lot of agencies are interested in AI, some are, are enthusiastic about it, and looking at how they can use it. Others are fearful of it and think that, you know, it may impact negatively their own businesses. I think that AI is certainly an area that you need to be looking at how you can integrate it with your agency, I don’t think it’s something to be feared. I think it’s just another tool in the arsenal a great tool, but a tool nonetheless. And you need to figure out how you can take advantage of that to better serve your clients. And the economy is something that that certainly comes up in many or if not most of the conversations I’m having with agency owners, they want to know, are we going to have recession, how’s it going to impact me, I think the important thing for agency owners to understand whether it’s May of 2023, or some other time, is that no recession, no macro economic condition impacts every agency the same. And every time we’ve had these kinds of slowdowns in the past, I’m old enough to have been through quite a few of them over the last 30 years. It impacts businesses based on who they are serving, and how those industries are being affected in that time. And so you need to really be putting your ear to the ground listening to your clients as you should at all times, but particularly now to understand not just what’s really happening to them, but how they’re behaving. So one of the things that I’m seeing is there, there are clients out there who are pulling back, even though they’re not seeing any impact of economics on their organization today, they’re not seeing a recession, but they’re just saying, well, maybe I need to hold on to some cash, maybe I just need to be a little more careful. And so those are the kinds of things you need to be aware of as an agency, because that’s going to have more of an impact on you than the actual news media reports on are we in recession or not?
John Corcoran 28:36
What you have this has been great. SAGA sounds amazing. I know. I’m gonna be checking it out afterwards. And really great. Really glad to learn about it from you. Where can people go to learn more about you and about SAGA and connect with you?
Chip Griffin 28:50
Simple, best place to go to smallagencygrowth.com. And you can find all the resources, podcasts, more information about me all that right there, and the name of your podcast so people can go check it out. So I have I have several the main one is agency leadership podcasts that I co host with Gini Dietrich of Spin sucks. And so that’s that’s probably the flagship one, but you can go find the others on the website as well.
John Corcoran 29:11
Excellent. Yep. All right. Thanks so much. Thank you.
Chad Franzen 29:16
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.