They had just bought a company with 70 people. He said, I don’t see any sign of HR. I’m scared to death. About what I don’t know. You know, I heard you’re hanging your shingle.
Can you come help me? And so in my heart, sales method, I said, I said, well, I’m not going to be available for six weeks. It sounds like you need somebody right away. He said, no, no, I’m it’s been like this 3 or 4 years. I can wait another month.
And he was actually the one that set my model. I hadn’t even really thought about it. I was going to take my last two weeks and then just take a month and decompress. And he said, how about if you give me every Monday, and if I call you and email you throughout the week, you take my calls and emails and I’ll pay you so much per month. And I love that model.
So it built in my four weeks of vacation a year because my husband was a stay at home dad, and our daughter was about three and a half when I started the company. So I had committed to them that I was going to take time off four weeks a year. And so our clients would pay for 48 weeks, and there were 52 in a year. So that was just kind of built in. And then also, I didn’t want to spend my time tracking time, and I didn’t want my clients to hesitate to pick up the phone or shoot me an email.
And so that model just immediately resonated for me. And we still, 21 years later, have that same model. We just we scale up and down now. But that dedicated day a week model is how we started. And most of our business is, is, is at that level.
John Corcoran: 10:13
Which is now usually referred to as fractional. Right. Was that a term that was used back then?
Shannon Swift: 10:19
Yeah. It was not used back then. And I think it was you know, they’re the only fractional role that I was seeing back then was in say I’m sorry. It was CFOs. And so there was a CFO group here that I networked with.
And and so we really did a lot of work together around town. So we had HR and finance kind of arm in arm. But but fractional was really a concept that people didn’t understand. And and so for me, the other thing that was really great was that we look and feel like our client. And so we have an email extension, a phone extension.
Our clients forget that we’re not working just with them. And and so we, you know, we would attend, you know, multiple holiday parties, summer picnics. You know, we’re just we’re part of the team. I’d have I have so much client swag. So it’s like we just we’re part of part of the team.
John Corcoran: 11:07
We wear different t shirt each day of the week. Yeah. Monday. Oh, I gotta put on this shirt Tuesday.
Shannon Swift: 11:11
I’ve got some I’ve got some, some, some collector’s items from swag of, of early companies and so yeah Zillow I’ve got the earliest, earliest swag from Zillow. And so, so it’s it’s really it’s been fun to to have that that we’re kind of part of the company, but we’re also part of other companies at the same time.
John Corcoran: 11:29
So before we get into talking about referrals, then let me ask you, how do you avoid under that model it turning into something more like, how do you draw the line when they’re sending you a lot of emails and sending you a lot of voice messages and and asking questions. And it’s not Monday. It’s throughout the week. How do you how do you draw the line there?
Shannon Swift: 11:49
Yeah, I mean, the way that that we mentally think about it is we are part of that team. And so so just like when you, you know, you’ve got your dedicated time, when you’re working on certain projects and you’ve got timelines and, and, and deadlines to meet and you’ve got meetings that you’re in. But throughout, it’s like when you get out of a meeting, you check your phone and email instead of getting phone and email messages from one company, and all the employees were getting it from multiple. And so it all comes down to just managing expectations and prioritizing. I think also, compartmentalizing is a huge part of our role that we have to like, okay, we’re sitting with this company and this leadership team and this culture and values and this benefits plan and and these policies.
And then we get a phone call or an email from another one, and we just immediately switch gears. And now we’re, we’re right there. And then we come back again. So it’s definitely not for everyone. And our days are really intense.
But but one of the things that I love, and I think my team really loves, is making every client feel like we’re only working with them, and it’s it’s kind of a little bit of a game that that we, you know, we want them to forget that, that, that anybody that we’re working with anybody but them.
John Corcoran: 12:52
Yeah. I want to ask you about this, this idea of a referral only business. So first of all, define that for me. Does that mean that you don’t do any advertising? You don’t do any other sorts of things.
Okay, that seems like a point of pride.
Shannon Swift: 13:07
Yeah. So huge. And I think I didn’t really appreciate early on just what a gift it was that that basically every experience that I had that led before I started this business was leading into this being a referral only business. So our first client, like I said, came six weeks before we started. That was just through my network.
Somebody heard, you know, heard that somebody needed help. And they’re like, hey, I think Shannon’s going to start this thing. And I was known in the venture community already because of the other two roles that I had, the other outsourcing models. And so the relationships that I built over all of the years leading up to starting the business really came through. And I think one thing that I learned is that you never know when somebody is going to pop up in your world, down the down the line.
Just be nice to everybody. Help everybody. Always be respectful to people. I mean, I have people that I’ve terminated in the past that went on to start companies and reach out and have us work with them. And I was like, but I fired you.
And they’re like, well, I needed to be.
John Corcoran: 14:07
Done it in a nice way. Yeah.
Shannon Swift: 14:09
And so, so I think, you know, my second client was a former president that I worked with in House. My third one was my third and fourth came through volunteer work that I’ve done. I’m always been on volunteer roles. And that’s another thing I think that, you know, I was on the Human Resource Association board for ten years, led that as the president. And then I was on the Northwest Entrepreneur Network, and I was the chair of that for two years.
So I think and then getting into into entrepreneur organization and and volunteering there. So service is is my first value and my values are swift. Swift. And so the service and so I think all of those volunteer opportunities just being able to to and that that kind of goes back to my park service roots. Right.
It’s like we were there to make sure that the tourists had an amazing experience. And so that’s kind of the the approach that I’ve always had with my with my roles internally, as well as just networking with people as wherever I can serve. So I think all of that kind of came back and as I looked at look back at our 750 plus clients that we’ve had over the years and where they’ve come from and kind of the pockets, it’s it’s a lot of just, you know, we we see an opportunity for a win win which is the W in Swift. And you know if a company needs a resource and we know somebody that’s really fantastic and we we refer them over. We never have expectations.
And so it just seems to always just come back. So just doing the right thing for people. Trying to trying to solve problems and connect people where it makes sense to. And it just it comes back around and and so yeah. So it’s been just amazing to see how how we’ve built this organization really without a marketing and advertising budget.
John Corcoran: 15:54
So let me just kind of summarize what you said there. So keeping in touch with people is a priority. So in terms of like building this referral program, keeping in touch with people is a top thing priority, making it a win win. Referring other people when you see opportunities to do so. Getting involved in service.
So serving on boards, volunteering things like that. What else. What else do you do in order to generate referrals?
Shannon Swift: 16:20
Yeah, I think just I mean relationships and always, always giving time. I mean I’ve, you know there and it comes back to my passion, which is is a big part of it. I just I love I love my field that I’ve chosen. I love the I love to play with early stage for me. You know, it’s kind of the the nexus of, you know, smart people doing cool stuff in a fast pace.
And so, so whenever.
John Corcoran: 16:44
I have your lane, I guess might be another priority.
Shannon Swift: 16:47
I think. So knowing knowing your knowing.
John Corcoran: 16:49
Where your.
Shannon Swift: 16:49
Lane really thrive. But for me, whenever there’s an incubator there, you know, startups, I mean, I never hesitate to to jump when somebody asks me to come in and talk with them about setting up HR or, you know, building, you know, how do you how do you set your culture and values in an intentional way? What are the, you know, what are the things that that companies need to think about at that earliest stage? Co-Founder relationships. I never hesitate to take a meeting with with, with anybody that that that wants to pick my brain.
I have other HR folks that have wanted to start a business like what we have, or other functional areas that have said, you know, how how did you do this? And I never hesitate to to be very, you know, open and transparent and, have those conversations. So for me it’s just yeah, just seeking, you know, seeking to serve without expectations of anything in return.
John Corcoran: 17:40
I’m curious how the evolution of technology has affected you. It’s been 20 plus years since you started your company. I had a guest on this podcast, actually, a friend of mine, one of the co-founders of gusto, which is one of those companies out there that has been.
Shannon Swift: 17:53
All the time.
John Corcoran: 17:53
Yeah, that has been kind of trying to streamline a very complex area. So how has that affected your the clients that you work with and the way that you do the work that you do?
Shannon Swift: 18:03
Well, I’ll tell you, is that it’s it’s made our it’s made us able to do a lot more in a, in a much shorter period of time. So I mean, just to give you an example. So I worked with Zillow from two employees to 140. And I was our Mondays and Wednesdays through my company, and I had a Tuesday client and Thursday client at the same time. So every Monday morning I would come in and do the first thing I would do every Monday was onboarding for whoever was starting.
It might be three people, four people, five people, all starting one day. and and that that involves sitting there watching them fill out forms. I would have to go and copy their I-9 forms and their documentation and fill out that form. And everything was very, very manual. And it doesn’t seem like it was that long ago.
But now when we show up, everything’s already online. So gusto is a great example. Like we work with them a huge majority of our clients. I think rippling is, is a increasing area now, but gusto is is definitely one of the the largest providers for for our demographic of client. And and so you know when we when we do the onboarding now we get to jump right into the good stuff.
You know, what’s the history of the company. What’s our acronym. You know who’s you know, what’s the org chart look like. What’s the business and how do you fit into it. We don’t have to sit there and watch people filling out forms anymore.
And just the manual paperwork, you know, and doing things in duplicate. And I mean, I just I cringe now thinking about how much time I spent in a week just on, on just manual physical paperwork. So I would say that’s that’s just like been such a gift that that we get to, to not have to spend our time there anymore.
John Corcoran: 19:35
Yeah. It’s almost like an expectation now. You know, we’re all so used to these types of streamlined onboardings with different companies that we might hire or do business with that, you know, if someone comes to us and hands us a piece of paper, then we have to fill out a bunch of information that was found elsewhere, whether it’s in dentist’s office or something like that or school. You know, it just it drives me crazy as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shannon Swift: 19:59
So it’s made our lives a lot better in the HR world.
John Corcoran: 20:02
You have different divisions to your company. So I’m curious about that. You have Swift talent, Swift HR, Swift leadership. Talk a little bit about the differences between those and why you delineate it in that way.
Shannon Swift: 20:12
Yeah. So and I have to tell you I was Smith and so I married Swift. So I think that one of the best decisions I ever made was marrying my husband with that name.
John Corcoran: 20:21
Smith would have been just Smith.
Shannon Swift: 20:23
HR would not have been a sexy. Definitely not so. So we started with Swift HR on site. That was actually what we called our business line. And then we started getting a lot.
We would just see on the recruiting side the fees that our clients were paying. And you know, we’re working with a lot of startups and they don’t have big budgets. And so, so one of my team came to me and I think one of the one of the the attributes I’ll say about myself as a leader is that I’m always open to whatever somebody has as an idea, and I usually will give it a predefined period of time. And it’s it’s most often a year. I’ll say, okay, let’s, let’s try this for a year, and then we’ll just kind of like touch base, see how it’s working.
Do we want to continue or kill it? And so one of my team came and said, okay, I think I think we’re missing an opportunity to serve our clients. And, you know, we we should be offering recruiting services. And I said, oh, I just, you know, the big fees and the percentage of payroll, which doesn’t align with their client and, and so, so they said, no, no, you know, I think we should, should mirror our model on the HR side. So we and I was like okay if we can make the numbers work, this, you know, let’s let’s do this.
And so so we started in about 2016. We started our current iteration of Swift Talent, which is a recruiter that looks and feels like their clients, clients, employees. So they have an email extension, a phone extension. They’re representing the employment brand and doing one point of contact. So our model is always very seasoned HR folks, very seasoned corporate recruiters.
So we don’t have junior people that are jumping and needing a lot of support. And so the overhead was relatively low. And so the model was incredible. So we have a flat monthly fee. They look and feel like part of the client’s team.
There’s a small success fee based on the level of position that they fill. And we have filled entire teams of fast growing companies. The other really nice thing about it was as an internal HR person, when we stopped hiring, we had to let our recruiters go. And that just horrible, right? It’s like we have to let them go.
And with our service, you can just turn it on and off. And so we fill a bunch of positions. The client turns it off, and then and then they close another contract or another round of funding and they turn it back on. And here we come back again. So that’s our swift talent side.
And we’ve got, you know, a handful. We it’s it’s very boutique ish. We’re not trying to compete with with anybody on a big scale. But we’re doing a really great job for our clients. And then the leadership was another one of my Swifties that had a passion for.
We’re all generalists and we all have our areas of passion. So I love culture and values. That Swift was really into building teams and recruitment. And then my other business line is Swift leadership. And I have just this amazing senior level HR generalist.
But she is also a content designer and a facilitator, and she’s hysterical on top of it. She’s very laugh out loud funny. And so, so she started putting together workshops for us and for our clients. And so we have a new manager development, one that’s actually coming up on October 3rd. And, and so that’s been really, really exciting just to see how we’re able to to offer very high quality leadership development as our clients grow.
So they start out with just a core team, and then as they grow around 50 to 60, 70 employees, they start to promote their stars. And now we’re able to just kind of grow with them. So so that’s kind of just the iteration is just me being open to whatever the team comes up with and then say, okay, does it fit our culture and values and our philosophies around how we operate? And, you know, and does it make sense for the client and for us? Yeah.
And so so that’s that’s kind of been my approach to adding different business lines.
John Corcoran: 23:58
And I want to ask you about how you deliberately structured those culture and how you determine the values. And I guess related to that, I’m looking over your headcount here. And you have very few men, almost all women working for you. So talk a little bit about that choice.
Shannon Swift: 24:15
Well, and that’s been a that’s been a source of frustration actually for us over the years. And I think the first couple of men that I look to add to the team were were just people that I knew and had really respected. One was my mentor, actually, when I first got into HR, he was the VP of HR at a company and I would reach out to him and say, oh my gosh, I’ve got this situation, what do I do? And he’d say, wow, what are you going to do about that? So years later, he came back and he said, you know, I think I want to join your team.
I want to do do what you do. And I was thrilled. I was like, oh my gosh, you know, not only.
John Corcoran: 24:47
Am I your mentor.
Shannon Swift: 24:47
Getting a guy, but I’m getting my mentor to come on board. And so we had a client for him right away. And the day before he was to start with the client, he called and he realized the amount of, of of rolling up sleeves that he was going to have to do. And so we are very full scale. So we’ve been at the VP level in the boardroom, but we also roll up our sleeves and get the work done because we’re working with small companies.
Right. And so I mean, you know, you wear lots of hats when you’re in a, in a startup. And he he was like, I don’t think I can get back down into that, into that tactical, granular level, like I’ve been at this level. So I think one of the things that we have discovered over time, and we have had a couple of guys, amazing guys on our team. Both have retired now.
And, you know, we start with a lot of experience. And so so the guys that we have had on the team really have have been you know, they’ve been further along in their careers. And so they, they chose to to kind of step back when they started having grandchildren. And so so that’s been a challenge for us. I will also say, and this is probably a stereotype, but I think that my team juggles a lot.
I mean, we are, like I said, that compartmentalization, jumping in and out of things, multitasking is maybe not as well served for, for, for for the male population. So as much and.
John Corcoran: 26:12
I say it all the time, if you want something done, give it to a busy mom to do.
Shannon Swift: 26:15
Yeah. So so we do we do have we are in touch with both of our retired Swifties that that like to do leadership. And so we’ll pull them in to do a workshop or sometimes an investigation or due diligence. And then we, we have a really amazing guy that just joined our team recently that, that is that’s totally one of us. I mean, he’s he’s he’s he’s thriving.
John Corcoran: 26:38
Yeah. I want to ask you about the impact of Covid because that affected so many companies. You’re in Seattle area. Got a lot of technology companies in that area. How did it affect your clients and how did it affect you as a company because you had to deal with both at the same time?
Shannon Swift: 26:57
Yeah, it actually started out like many. It started out feeling very much like a doom and gloom. So our revenue dropped 30% in April. It went down 40% in May. And and then all of a sudden we we started just completely, completely thriving.
And I think what happened was our I mentioned before, our our core offering was Swift HR on site. We just basically dropped the on site because most of our clients were not.
John Corcoran: 27:23
Going to ask about that. Yeah.
Shannon Swift: 27:24
We just.
John Corcoran: 27:25
Became we needed.
Shannon Swift: 27:25
Swift HR instead of on site, which was pretty easy to do. Just drop that off of there. Yeah.
John Corcoran: 27:30
But take a Sharpie and write over everything.
Shannon Swift: 27:33
But but most of our I mean, the vast majority of our clients were in person. And so we had a physical location, you know, Seattle area and then Portland. And so when Covid started, we had one Swifty that had wanted to be virtual. And she announced it like back in early 2019. She said, by October, you know, we have this TechEd out trailer and we want to be on the road.
We’re empty nesters and I want to I can serve clients from anywhere, and I just want I just want virtual clients. So for me, I’m like, okay, challenge accepted. I’m going to make sure that your plate is full of just virtual companies. And so she was and so they set set out on the road in October of 2019. So when Covid started, our team immediately reached out and said, oh my gosh.
And you know, we had all this experience from her. And so we were able to really quickly pivot on the leadership side. Kendra, our facilitator and content designer, immediately wrote a, a module for for managing remote teams. And so we just kind of immediately were like, okay, what do people need and how can we serve them? But then what was really exciting was I started getting calls from former clients that had moved from other parts of the country and they’re like, hey, Shannon, I’m in Cleveland, can you help me?
And I was like, are you in the office? Oh, no. We’re remote. Yep. We can help.
And then so we just kind of like, went from there. I also, in 2021, acquired a company that was in Colorado. And so that gave me a couple of folks and clients in Colorado as well as Florida. And so from there, we just again, I’m just open to the possibilities, right. I don’t shut any ideas down.
And so we now just have continued to expand carefully in terms of culture and values on our own team. And so we have, you know, just this very like minded group now in Connecticut and New York City and Michigan and and and Colorado and Florida and so and of course, you know, Portland we have a couple of folks there as well. And so it’s just that it turned out to be just a huge catalyst for our growth and that we were now able to be anywhere. And, and and it’s been a lot of fun for the team. I think a lot of challenges and trying to figure out how to make it work.
And we do three events for our team. We bring everybody in for the summer picnic here, and then we do virtual events for our team throughout or we we we’ve now that we’re back in person, we’ve the remote team into our our team events. Yeah. So yeah.
John Corcoran: 29:55
So we went from before Covid to offices in Seattle in Portland. And now I’m looking at your website. We have New York, we have Fort Myers, Florida. We have Denver, Colorado, Boulder, Colorado, Connecticut, Michigan all over the place.
Shannon Swift: 30:08
Yeah, yeah, it’s really fun. Really fun. For our holiday party last year, we did a charcuterie contest physically for the people that were in the Seattle area and at a winery. And then the remote team were we sent them borderies, which is, if you haven’t heard of those, they’re really cool charcuterie boards that you send send out. And so, so all of my remote team got those and a bottle of wine.
And so they were on, on, on they were on Zoom. And so we were walking them around. They became the judges for the charcuterie contest. And so we found a way to, to weave them in. And I’ve got already an idea for this holiday party coming up, but I think that’s been one of a, one of the fun things for me is figuring out like, how do we how do we bring everybody all together when we’re not all together?
John Corcoran: 30:48
Yeah. And you also had another iconic company that came through your company was Tableau Software. You were their first outsourced HR.
Shannon Swift: 30:57
Yeah. So Tableau had just moved up here from they were started in Stanford and they had just moved up to Seattle. And I want to say it was probably 2007. And so one of my Swifties joined them. They they reached out because they had a full time position open right away.
As did Zillow. And they they said, you know, we we don’t want to be stalled while we’re looking for the person. And, and as well they wanted to have some expertise in terms of that technical screen when they did find the right person. And so we jumped in and and helped them build out their executive. We did an executive culture audit, so we helped them articulate their values.
And and then we we actually helped them to determine who was the best full time, full time fit. So we were there for like, I think it was like 4 or 5 months until we until we found the right person and then we, we transitioned over to them and dropped off. And so yeah, so that’s, you know, being able to come in at that earliest stage when there’s nothing broken and just make sure that that, that it stays that way is, is really kind of the biggest reasons we exist.
John Corcoran: 32:01
And by the way, you should have trademarked that term Swifties early on. I should have just grabbed it.
Shannon Swift: 32:06
We said we just let Taylor have. We’re not gonna we’re not gonna. We have been around longer than than she has.
John Corcoran: 32:13
Well, she heard it and she was like, that’s great, I gotta use that. I’m going to use that term. Well, this has been great, Shannon.
Shannon Swift: 32:20
In my background.
John Corcoran: 32:21
That’s totally fine. Got a cat running around your behind your shoulders here. I want to wrap up with my last question, which is my gratitude question. I’m a big fan of giving our guests a little bit of space at the end here to acknowledge anyone. Thank anyone who’s been maybe a peer, maybe a contemporary, maybe a key client who’s been there with you through the journey, anyone you want to shout out and recognize?
Shannon Swift: 32:42
Yeah, I mean, I have to I have to say thank you to my husband just because he was a stay at home husband and could have immediately shut down. You know, he he was he never had a doubt that this was going to succeed. And and so I think I had the freedom to really start start swift HR solutions and explore that. But my biggest gratitude goes out to my very first client. And, you know, the fact that he came to me and he had We had a 20th anniversary celebration.
And he was there. I made sure that he was going to be able to be there. And I just called him out because, you know, I, I think people say, wow, you know, this is such a great model and you were so far ahead of your time and, and, you know, everything was just really thought out. But it really kind of goes back to my having my first client set my model, like, how fortunate was I and, and just just to have that feedback from him and what, what he needed as an entrepreneur and to be able to align our, our business to the client’s need. And he’s he’s been he’s been a resource.
He’s been a client of ours multiple times. In fact, he just came back for a third time and we’re working with him again. And he has just been such a such a pivotal a pivotal role in, in, in, in our entire history. And I’m super grateful to him. And just being able to, to, to have him be vested in, in our success all these years has just been been really amazing.
John Corcoran: 34:04
Yeah, I think back on when I started my first company, which was my law firm, I was an attorney practicing law. And, you know, those first few people that take a risk on you and you’ve got nothing, you know, it’s it’s such a boost of confidence when you’re just getting started, you know. Yeah.
Shannon Swift: 34:21
Yeah. Absolutely.
John Corcoran: 34:22
Shannon, this has been great. Where can people go to learn more about you, connect with you and learn more about what you guys are doing? And I know you have this new Swift Start HR, which is your new offering for companies that have fewer than 15 employees. So tell us about that as well.
Shannon Swift: 34:37
Yeah. So we had initially I’ll go back to our early days in 2005. We had a Swift HR in a box product, which was literally like a photo album quality box that had different binders in it, and it came with support from a Swift, and it was for companies that were just hiring their first employees. And I knew when companies like, like gusto were coming along that that was going to be obsolete. And what hasn’t been obsolete, though, is, is what is what kind of caused us to to reimagine that into Swift starter and Swift starter will take you to our site.
But it’s it’s a collection of of 50 documents, templates, resources that are specifically for that earliest stage and has everything that a company needs to to self manage that, that that HR function. It comes with support from a Swift HR Ops Swift. And again, going back to my very first client, you know, you can’t just give this to me and walk away. You need to you need to stick around and hold my hand. And so we provide support.
It’s a six month subscription, super cost effective for small companies. And and so everything’s delivered online in a portal. And there are there’s zoom meetings with their with their dedicated swifty that comes with it. So so we’re really excited about that. We just had a purchase from New York.
I have no idea where it came from. So I think the referral only is is is going to shift now as Is as as we enter our our, we’re going to be entering our 22nd year of business. But it’s super exciting to see people finding us now, finding that that product online. So and let’s see, what else did you ask me? Where can you find us?
John Corcoran: 36:15
Yeah. Where can people go? Website. Yeah.
Shannon Swift: 36:18
SwiftHRSolutions.com has all of our business lines on it. And then and I’m on LinkedIn and I would love to link with anybody that wants to chat about HR. I’m always a resource for entrepreneurs before they need us. I’m a huge relationship person and I just, I love, I love answering questions and providing input and advice wherever, wherever somebody wants it.
John Corcoran: 36:41
Excellent, Shannon. Thanks so much.
Shannon Swift: 36:42
Yeah. Thank you. Take care John.
Outro: 36:47
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.