Ashtan Moore 11:21
revenue in the door faster than you can deliver it. And that is exactly what I did. And what that leads to is a lack of referrals, and renewals,
John Corcoran 11:31
because because you can’t fulfill on the work that
Ashtan Moore 11:35
you get under your it’s it’s like, you know, shoving revenues and accompany too quickly is exactly the same as borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Like if you don’t have which is so funny, because it contradicts what I’m saying, which is in the headcount. So I would say actually, the issue with my first company was actually a lack of process. And due to that lack of process, we were inefficient, so we had a big headcount. And we should have been able to deliver the revenue, but we didn’t have the execution and process in the company to actually deliver efficiently, don’t just have to feed it more and more and more contracts. Now. Now, mind you, I’m still friends with a lot of the clients from back then. And they would say that we did a good job, not a great job. But a great job is what gets you referrals and renewals and a good job. Does not Yeah, do a great job.
John Corcoran 12:31
So he wasn’t good at sales, though.
Ashtan Moore 12:35
Took me a long time to realize that John, I thought, I thought I was a builder. I thought I was good at bringing products to market turns out as you might enjoy this quick little aside, my first company get I was very young. And what we did is it that was back when there were BlackBerry servers. So I one of the things we did is install BlackBerry servers and kind of a geek. So I do nerdy geek stuff. Which marketing is actually highly analytical, as most marketers know, and most non marketers don’t. But remember, I had gone to pitch this company, and I got there a little early, and the receptionist puts me into the conference room. And she goes, goes, Wait here, can I get your water. I’m like it loved ones. I’m drinking my water. And like I’m waiting for the for the prospective buyer to come into the room. They’re not there. It’s five minutes behind. 10 minutes behind. Finally she peeks her head in again and she goes, Hey, I could do you know where your boss is like, because as soon as he gets here, I’ll bring in the partners so you guys can talk. Oh, I I’m the I’m the founder,
John Corcoran 13:54
Eva, your lawyer. You must have grown up the beard immediately after that.
Ashtan Moore 14:00
I couldn’t at that time, John. I was. I was really young. But I just I’ll never forget that moment.
John Corcoran 14:07
Oh, man. Oh, yeah. That’s hard to go into a pitch. She, they were great. Oh, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Wow, nothing like getting knocked on your hind legs and then recovering and closing the sale. That’s awesome. So
Ashtan Moore 14:22
I’m focused on value, John, like, you got to focus on that. But I’ve never been great at being the one that delivers that, if that makes sense.
John Corcoran 14:29
That’s great self awareness. So you grew up in your words, the child of hippies and you moved around the country. I moved around the country every three years or so when I was growing up. And I thought that was bad. You were like every year to year and a half. Tell us a little about what that was like.
Ashtan Moore 14:46
Yeah, so my parents are I would say entrepreneurs. You know, they’ve ran a couple of companies, but I think they shuttered one. It was a health care clinic in Vienna, Virginia back when just the year I was born by and 85. And then since then my father was very heavy in diet, nutrition, that kind of stuff. So I don’t want to say that we moved around on communes, but it was like kind of close. You know, they were just always seeking to find the place where they could put the roots down and help people. So I moved from Florida, through Ohio, to Montana, back to Ohio, just all around. Yeah, it was 13 times by the time I was 15, I think And wow, you know, it actually helped me a lot, because they are they, they really just wanted to help the world. And, you know, they were still around over in West Virginia, I’m going to see him in a week or two here for Christmas, whatever that is, I know it’s common. You know, they just wanted to help the world, I grew up vegan, homeschooled, wanted to make the world a better place. And so one of the things that inspired me to actually build companies and learn how to do the stuff I do today is because they tried so desperately to make some change in the world. And they, they never really got that they never hit the sweet spot on how to drive a major difference. So I’ve, you know, I’ve kind of dedicated myself to doing that in their stead to figure out how to, you know, build companies that matter, build companies that drive value. And I guess, John, this will be the first time I ever say this on a podcast. But my real goal and mission in life is that I want to build all these profitable companies to be able to deploy at least a billion dollars of, of capital back into the world to make it better. And I don’t exactly know what that looks like yet, but I’m going to make it so I can not give it away, per se that’s not, but rather put it to work to do things that change the world, because it’s what I grew up watching my parents trying to do. And they would agree with me here, by the way, I don’t I’m sure my mom will listen to this, but they never really quite figured it out. So so I’m on the mission to help you figure it out, if that makes sense.
John Corcoran 17:12
What about for you, you know, there are some children of entrepreneurs if their parents were not wildly successful as entrepreneurs that they run the other direction? what point did you know that you wanted to start companies build companies like your parents had, but maybe stand on their shoulders and and take a little further than they did themselves?
Ashtan Moore 17:36
It’s been a it’s been a long series of fortunate events, to be honest. So when I decided that when I was around 15 that I was going to hunt, to figure out how to make some change. Remember, I was homeschooled. Like I didn’t know anything about anything I’ve read. I’ve read every book.
John Corcoran 17:54
So So So was it from a book. I mean, it would probably wasn’t a teacher at school, then what was it that like
Ashtan Moore 18:00
that inspired you? Well, really what inspired me is that I just really wanted to figure out how to make change, some change, but again, growing up knowing nothing. I just figured the way I do that is go get a job. So my I guess this isn’t a dirty secret. But what I actually ended up doing is moving to DC and working as a bartender, I was like, Okay, step one, get money. That was still on step one, to be honest. Well, that’s all right. Step one, I need a B, right. So you start start working as a bartender, bartender, but I did private events. So I worked at catering companies, I cleaned carpets was another job. I didn’t like that so much. But I kind of joke. This is not a joke. This is true. The carpets, I used to clean as a teenager, those people invite me to their house now to go to their fancy parties. So don’t essentially happen. I’ve had every odd job in the world and one of them was the catering company. I grew up with computers and I’m very good at computers. I do computer stuff real good. And also CRMs I got I got I got the opportunity to help this catering company with their with their CRM and and with their computers and I called my older brother and who’s an even bigger geek than I am he’s actually in the Entrepreneurs Organization accelerator in Columbus, Ohio, running a company called gamma force will probably not be in the accelerator for much longer. This is gonna tip ice and hit his. For those for those who don’t know, to join the Entrepreneurs Organization from the accelerator, you have to hit a million dollars in annual recurring revenue and he’s not far off because he’s doing great work. But so I call them and I was like, probably 17 or 18 maybe 19 I go hey, man, they want to help me. They want me to help Peter stuff I’m good at some of this. You’re good at all of it. Do you mind helping me? And he goes, Yeah, order these 12 books damn good at reading. So I read all the books and I, they ended up offering me a job as their IT director when I was good, making a great deal of money compared to bartending and cleaning carpets. And working in warehouses and catering kitchens. And so I took the job and they parlayed that into, they became a lot of other people asked for Computer Help. And I parlayed that into my first company, just because I wanted to help other people. Like, they were like, what about my computer’s in my CRM is in my servers? And I was like, Oh, uh, let me figure out how to how to help you too. And that the
John Corcoran 20:49
one thing leads to another? Yeah, yeah. what point did you learn about the world of agencies and decide to start an agency then? Because that’s kind of going down a different direction?
Ashtan Moore 21:01
That is such an awesome question. Okay. So back in the day, when there were BlackBerry servers, when there was a guy in your office who was fixing the server or your laptop, what you saw was guy with computer. And so guy with computer knows how to build things inside of the computer like websites, right? Yes, computer guy. Alright, so
John Corcoran 21:29
I was just talking with someone else about this the other day, like, yeah, like 10 15 20 years ago, computer guy did all that stuff, including digital marketing, right? Yep. It wasn’t as siloed as it is now.
Ashtan Moore 21:41
Yep. So I make fun of my mom and dad like bawling and hippies. But they were actually they put together a pretty amazing curriculum for me when I was homeschooled, and part of that included brand design and programming. So I actually knew personally how to design I used to when I was 15. I used to design websites for free, just to get experience. And so later on one of my larger law firm clients of my IT company asked me if I would build their website, I was like, No, I don’t do that. Then they asked me again, and then I asked them what their budget was, which led to a yes.
John Corcoran 22:21
But important lesson, ask the budget first.
Ashtan Moore 22:23
Budget, yes, it was the in that order. I go, No, no. What’s your budget? Yeah. Oh, yes. It’s a yes. ROTC. Yes. But I was smart enough. I’m not smart. I’m still not smart. But I was smart enough, then to know that it was running a company. So I, I pulled in a programmer on a freelance basis. And I pulled in a designer on a freelance basis, and I built them a website. And it was great. I was like, I like this a lot more. So what ended up happening is, over the next couple of years, I started doing more and more of that, that marketing work, a lot of web, light advertising, a lot of design. I love design. I love it. I love it. And what would ultimately occurred is the cloud started to eat my IT company. So I wish I could say I sold it at a huge multiple, but instead of kind of just rounded down, then started a very lightweight digital agency that focused on the marketing side of things. And I loved that I loved that work. What was cool is that I, I did a lot of work for just through my, the nature of my network. I ended up doing a lot of work for the Edelman’s the Burson Marsteller ers.
John Corcoran 23:42
To big agencies and PR firms. Okay,
Ashtan Moore 23:45
yeah. So yeah, I was like, there. I was, like the one they gave the work they didn’t want. And that was great. Or when their team botched the project, which was often beget, not because I was special, unique or great, but rather because there was a legal at that time in the market to not pretend that you have a digital unit at your PR company. So they all pretended then they got the work. And then they were like, We don’t know how to do this changed a lot, meaning that either they do today have the digital unit, or they don’t pretend they do. Got it. wiser. Yeah.
John Corcoran 24:24
And so you’re kind of morphing. The business is kind of evolving, switching moving into into digital marketing. It was actually just to reflect for a second here on something you said. So we were talking earlier about the difference between working in your business on your business, but you just acknowledge the thing that you love design. So what it seems like when you got to the world of marketing, digital agency, there are pieces that you love, but you still have had the presence of mind to bring in operators. So I’m I guess I need to get to a question here. But um, how do you figure out what amount you’ll allow yourself to indulge in the pieces that you really do love, even if perhaps that’s something that could be handled by a team.
Ashtan Moore 25:15
So, I have to finish the very fast story because it answers your question. Okay. So that shop never got very big. Because it didn’t really know what I was doing. There was something similar to my first company. I was good at closing business. Yeah, that helps. When all of a sudden you have four websites going all at the same time a little harder for me, so wasn’t great. That was not good at it. I couldn’t bring for you be like you need four. You need four. I got you. They’re coming. Now, what ended up happening without sharp is? First I couldn’t figure out how to scale it. Second, I finally got curious enough to want to solve the answer to why is it that the people I’m working for the big PR companies in the sell my work for three to five times what I’m charging them have wanted answers. So what I ended up getting a call from one of my old it clients, which was McBee strategic, and they said, we need some IT help. And I said, I don’t do that. Now. I’m a marketer now, and I have this marketing company and they they were like, Look, man, can you just come help us transition IT directors. I was like, came and then what I what I ended up doing is one of the brilliant most brilliant things I’ve ever done in my life. I went in to help like part time as their IT director and then I lobbied all of the EVPs at this PR company to insource their outgoing creative web ad work if I would move in there full time, and help them build the digital unit. And so I got all of them to say yes, I think there were like six or seven of them. And then I went and pitched the CEO. Again, my whole life is just like falling up stairs or down. Sometimes both at the same time. Somehow I made this deal happen. I’ll get back to that. I’ll get back to deals, sales and deals. They said yes, I went in and I figured out they taught me chain me they’ve kind of made it teach me how they were selling the work I was doing on the digital side, three to five times what they were paying my little freelance shop ragtag group of hooligans. That was amazing. It was so kind of them. I was just that at a party with them. They invite me to their holiday party, which is so nice. But so I learned how to sell bigger agency work inside of that group. But what I didn’t, I guarantee you, I did not learn how to scale a company. But I loved working there. But what I really wanted to get back into is building my own units. And here’s the answer to your question, John. I met a guy who had built sold the scaled and sold the company. And he wanted to start a company that existed to build companies. That was Model B. And I signed up. I pitched him he pitched me, he said he wants to build this shop that does back office accounting, maybe some other stuff with the purpose of building companies. And I was like, That sounds amazing. But you know what sells my man marketing. And I know how to sell marketing. So if you want to build a company with cash flow, you got to put marketing in it, which means that we should probably work together and that was an option Bulgari, just saw a couple hours ago, we are now 5.9 year partners and Model B. And we recruited a finance guy. We also recruited a sales guy, and the sales guy, the fourth partner is the one who’s no longer with us. But at that point, you’ll notice what I did to answer your question is I wanted to build a company but I’d failed at scaling enough times to know that I’m not good at operations scale, or finance. So I partnered up with those co founders and that’s why, you know, today we had a prop great, great profitable month. You know, and month who knows what?
We have somewhere in between 20 and 30 employees, it changes teammates, I like to call them I really don’t like the word and we have a bunch of happy clients. We have a path to I hope IPO because we built a tech product. So see the real lesson there, John is I realized at that point that I wanted to build a thing, but I not been successful and building my own things enough time to know where I was weak. And so I jumped at the chance of working with other people who are better at it than me because they could identify where I was not good. Because I’d failed enough times. That makes sense. Yeah, is
John Corcoran 30:33
a valuable lesson. We’re running a little short on time. But I want to ask you, you know, we’re recording this and very end of 2021. Everyone’s talking about the great resignation, everyone talks about rising labor costs. How is that affecting the businesses that you’re involved in and mark cross the marketplace? What are you seeing these days,
Ashtan Moore 30:51
there are two things that we’re really focused on right now. I feel like, you know, we interview a lot of people, we get a lot of salary ranges, I feel like they’ve gone up a lot, especially in Marketing Land lately. There are really only two choices there. It’s either charge your clients more, or take a lower margin. And I do feel like business owners, founders do deserve to take a margin home, that’s at least reasonable. And so we’re having a lot of hard conversations with clients about upping our rates. And that’s a real thing. And we’re also having a lot of hard conversations internally inside of the company to figure out where we can cut the chaff. I don’t mean the staff, I mean, what we do for clients like it’s like, where do we not need to do that work so that we can raise our focus on the things that either grow the top line revenues, or save the bottom line. And it is a balance my man, you have to figure out in what areas you can drive more value in what areas you can charge clients more. Because ultimately, every great company drives value to all of its stakeholders. And if the market demands that much money to have that level of talent from your teammates, then you have to demand not amount of commiserate commensurate money back from your clients so that you have a thing that also drives money to the stakeholders. So it is a delicate game of cards right now.
John Corcoran 32:26
Sure is Yeah, yeah. In a moving target with a lot of different elements changing right now. I also want to ask, you know, you and I both joined you this year, Entrepreneurs Organization, what impact has that had for you joining that community of other founders, CEOs, entrepreneurs?
Ashtan Moore 32:47
The simple answer, John, I asked them how I can become a recruiter for them. And they call it a membership committee. member, I think is what I am. So now I I help them I volunteer for EO to help spread the good word. The reason why is because I’ve never been in rooms full of other founders before. And the old turns out, they all have the same problems as me. It all turns out there willing to share their experiences around what got them out of the holes they dug for themselves. So you’re looking to join EO, DC, please call me. They don’t pay me to say that. But rather, if I had a time machine, I would do only one thing. I would go back in time to make little made join EO. So there’ll be a whole lot less pain in my life and
John Corcoran 33:43
accelerator before that. For that I
Ashtan Moore 33:45
wish I wish to program in the i Well, good news, John. I’m also a, he’s also joined the membership committee for the accelerator program. So whatever tier you’re at, or whatever. And I also I’m I mean, because of who I am, as a person, I’m always happy to sit with people who aren’t at the 250,000 revenue mark to join the accelerator program. And I’ll just sit down and walk them through ways to you know, protect their scale their companies. Yeah, that’s great. Exactly. Somebody had done that for me, John. Yeah, I’m not I’m not saying my life was amazing. I’m so glad I experienced everything I did. But when I learned about EEO, I was like, We got to get more people in that.
John Corcoran 34:27
Oh, yeah, it’s a great community. Well, I want to wrap things up, because we’re about out of time here. I’m a big fan of gratitude. And you know, if you look around your peers and contemporaries, you’ve mentioned some here. But however you want to define that could be others in your industry. Who do you admire? Who do you respect? Who would you want to acknowledge publicly? Who’s helped you along in
Ashtan Moore 34:47
your journey? Good luck cop out on this question, John, and say that I appreciate the founders who get up every day and go out again. I mean, I could think about 1000 people it takes a city To help me build not not a village, you know, everybody from my co founders, to my teammates to our clients, goodness gracious, I always say to the clients, thank you for being a part of our world. But today, we’re going to thank the founders, because the people get up every day, with the potential to lose it all who provide the jobs to the world. We just keep going at it, and sign again and again, even when they fail. I admire that so much. And I just want to say to all of them, first of all, I’d happy to have a beer if you’re having a down day. But second of all, thank you for building the world that we have today, building the new products, the new services, the things that, you know, protect the borders, and grow our companies and protect our bottom lines. I mean, that’s a very big deal. Yeah, John, you’re one of them. So thank you, thank you,
John Corcoran 35:51
thank you, but I’m not gonna let you that off that easy. I’m gonna I’m going to steal an EEO strategy. And I’m going to ask, and who else who else, there’s got to be someone else is gonna kind of give me one or two names.
Ashtan Moore 36:03
Oh, you know, I’m gonna plug Jamie Kopp who’s the executive director here at EO DC who held my hand blocked me in into the organization. And I know, this is like, not an EO podcast. But seriously, if you want to info on it, give me a call. And you know, let’s go ahead and thank my older brother who I mentioned before, because he is dealt with me I remember just last year, I was like, It’s not about the mission. It’s about profitability, blah, blah, and then our profitability depth and he was just like, I told you, it’s about a mission, my man. Gotta better. You got to do that and be a great leader. And I was like, okay, okay, okay. Put up my mind. Nonsense. I was a little kid, you helped coach me. We’ll make it sentimental. John, you helped coach me into my first job as an IT director for the catering company. And you got me that stack of 12 books? Pretty sure I’ve read all of them, but one is the one I didn’t read was about sequel didn’t want that in my life. No, nobody does. So thank you one or more the founder of gamma force and nonprofit or two. Thank you, Jamie Kopp or more. You guys helped build me. I hope I can help you back someday in any way that I can.
John Corcoran 37:23
Awesome, Ashtan. This has been a lot of fun. Where can people go to learn more about you connect with you learn about your companies.
Ashtan Moore 37:29
Oh, I am so easy. A s h t a n M o o r e is where I am everywhere. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, not TikTok. Because while people are trying to get me on the TikTok, I’m trying to not get on TikTok or at gmail.com. It all works out. And I seriously love to, you know, if you’re a founder struggling love to grab a beer. If you need marketing advice. As the CMO you’re probably smarter than me. But I’d love to help. If you are you have an idea that you maybe want to take to market that you’re afraid to leap. All of those are reasons to call me I’m always here. And if and if you need finance help, I’m just going to introduce you to my co-founder Dan bender. He’ll tell you what to do.
John Corcoran
Excellent, Ashtan. Thanks so much. Thank you, John. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Outro 38:23
Thank you for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast with John Corcoran. Find out more at smartbusinessrevolution.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our email list and join the revolution. And be listening for the next episode of the Smart Business Revolution Podcast.