I’m like, well, you know, I was talking to another couple this morning and they were telling me like, hey, if you don’t fight, then there’s probably not enough. Like, there’s not enough of a dynamic in your relationship, like somebody’s holding something back. And so the fighting is actually healthy. It’s just, how do you fight in a way where it doesn’t escalate to the point of slamming doors and yelling and throwing things, and then you’ve got three days of silent treatment. How do you actually fight in a healthy way where people are leaving the argument, the disagreement, feeling more seen and heard and understood than before they entered it.
And that’s that’s some of the work that we’re doing in our program is taking these couples on this journey to discover themselves and each other and then thinking about like, okay, if this is who you are, this is what’s important to you. How do your triggers affect this? How do your past traumas affect this? And, you know, we’re not therapists, we’re not counseling, but we’re giving people some really foundational frameworks for how to handle conflict in a way that actually strengthens their, their relationship instead of hurts it.
John Corcoran: 12:09
And you said something interesting when we first connected, which was you said we didn’t have any marriage mentors. Yeah. Talk a little bit about that, because I think, you know, a lot of especially newly married couples or couples that have been married for a while, in my case, my wife and I have been married for 19 years. You don’t really think about that.
Ann Sheu: 12:25
Yeah. You know, I was really, really lucky growing up. I had lots of mentors in many areas of my life. I had career mentors. I had I mean, just mentors and coaches in every single area that you could even think of.
And when we started struggling because we had a lot of the same habits that his parents had. And so when we started struggling in our marriage and our relationship, I realized, like, we don’t have marriage mentors, we don’t have anyone to look up to that had been married a really long time, that was still madly in love and, and, you know, celebrating decades together. We knew a lot of people that were married a long time, but they were kind of roommates. And we knew, you know, a lot of people that were divorced.
Sunny Sheu: 13:11
And so and I’d also say just also that they’ve built something like a business or have done something hard in their professional life.
Ann Sheu: 13:20
Yeah, yeah. And so we didn’t really have anywhere to turn when things started getting hard in our relationship. So what we ended up doing was just pulling out what we knew, which was how to build great businesses, how to build great teams. We were really good at that. We knew how to do that.
We knew how to create a healthy culture. We knew how to set a vision for our work. And so we kind of started doing that same thing for our family.
Sunny Sheu: 13:45
I’d say experiment. Yeah.
Ann Sheu: 13:47
We started experimenting with business ideas in the family. And what we discovered is that there’s a lot of things that are great in the family space that are easily transferable. You know, when you talk about those transferable skills, there’s a lot of them that are transferable to the family space. And then there are some that.
Sunny Sheu: 14:06
We can’t fire my wife.
Ann Sheu: 14:07
Yeah. And there’s some that not only don’t apply, but if you try to apply it in the family space, it’s actually we found is dangerous for the relationship. It actually does more harm than good. And so we spent, you know, nearly a decade just testing on our own family, on our own marriage. Like what works, what doesn’t work.
We would try something and realize that it was actually causing more harm. We would throw that out the window, we’d try something else and and just test and iterate and experiment for a really long time until we kind of found the pieces that really worked for families.
John Corcoran: 14:44
So you mentioned earlier that, you know, with your parents, you think part of the reason their relationship disintegrated is because they didn’t set new goals once they’d achieved the financial goals and the business goals. Are there any other things that you look back on now, knowing what you know, thinking about, you know, mistakes that were made? Are there any other things that you think that should have been done differently that would have helped?
Sunny Sheu: 15:10
I mean, yes, communication. Yes. But I feel like the larger and bigger goal is what can drive you towards a common purpose. And without that, I feel like it’s like you can have great communication, but if you’re not working together towards something, then it’s kind of like it’s a little bit aimless. So.
So yes, there’s a million things that could have been done better. And I don’t really necessarily fault them for it either. I mean, everyone’s just doing the best they can. So. So yeah.
John Corcoran: 15:49
And when you say that common purpose, what are some examples that you guys have seen of common purposes? Is it like we’re going to build a lake house, or is it like to send our kids to college or is it, you know, are those material things? What is it?
Sunny Sheu: 16:04
It can be whatever is meaningful to the couple and truly authentic to them. And what we found is that it’s better when it’s not because society wants it for you, but because you want it innately. So what we try to do is uncover your inner desires and inner strengths, inner values like your true values and not aspirational. And by doing that, we can set goals that are more aligned with your natural curriculum, or your natural flow, or your natural hardwiring.
Ann Sheu: 16:42
Yeah. The other thing I’ll add is it’s so important for each individual in the couple to do their own visioning goal setting work, and then come together with their spouse to do the work together. So at Empower Families, we call the big picture long term goal your decade dream. Like, what does success look like in ten years in your life? If you’re living in alignment with your values and you’re really working towards your ideal life, and for each of our couples, they each have an individual decade dream and then together they have a family decade dream.
So in their family unit they’ve got three decade dreams. And what we have found that this does is it helps make sure that both individuals, both of the family leaders, are really clear about what a win looks like for them as individuals and then together as a family. What does a win for the family look like? Because I think where things often go wrong is either families will have a beautiful family dream, but then they’ll forget about the individual. Or what we often see is two individuals that are really clear about what their individual goals are, and then they’ve forgotten about setting that family goal.
And so we think it’s, you know, it’s really important to do all three.
John Corcoran: 17:58
So that clarifies a question I was going to ask, which is you know what? If, you know, the husband just wants to be able to watch more football, college football on Saturdays and the wife just wants to be able to go out with her friends and go shopping or whatever. Right? They just have very differing goals. But what you’re saying is that you should each have those separate goals, whatever they are, and then there should also be some goal that you come to agreement on.
That’s a family goal different from the individual goals.
Sunny Sheu: 18:24
Yeah, we think all of those are very important for us to show up as best selves and to be in relationship with each other like our family decade dream is 2003 days over the course of a decade. So by 20 end of 2029, we want to have taken 2003 days, which is like no work. And that’s a lofty goal for us. And it took us a long time to arrive at that goal. After a lot of iteration and all that.
And then now when we’re doing it for couples, I mean, we can get to a pretty good first draft within an hour. So. So, yeah, even.
John Corcoran: 19:10
For I imagine you’ve had some clients, some families that are just stuck in it that have difficulty envisioning it like I was, you know, you guys have kids, you think your oldest is six or your youngest is one. My oldest is 14, my youngest is six. You know, and it’s hard sometimes to envision a, you know, when you’re stuck in those child rearing years. I mean, like, I would take an hour to go on a hike by myself some days, you know. So, like, you know, having a bigger vision is kind of a little hard to imagine sometimes.
Sunny Sheu: 19:47
Yeah. And we take people through a process. So, so, so this is interesting too, because we’re experimenting. And it took us years to figure out what works and what doesn’t work. And we didn’t try to build this.
We didn’t set out to build a business in the beginning. I mean, we were just sharing with friends forums and stuff and they’re like, oh, that worked, or this didn’t work or whatever. And we’re like, okay, cool, whatever, whatever helps. And, and and well, and we started getting more and more feedback and then and was like, oh, this is too important to, to not share. And I was like, no, I’m good.
Like, I don’t need another business to start. And so just because we knew some of the principles we had to learn how to package it and to develop a curriculum to show other people how to show other couples how to do it.
John Corcoran: 20:41
And conveniently, and had actually become an EOS implementer for those who know that from the world of traction by Gino Wickman, how much did that influence the curriculum that you created around Empowered family?
Sunny Sheu: 20:55
Some.
Sunny Sheu: 20:56
But I mean, Ann and I are avid learners, like we’ve done every learning program. We’ve tried everything while we were testing it in our businesses. We were also testing it in our personal lives. So I just say we were mad scientists. Yeah.
Ann Sheu: 21:11
And we were, we were, we’ve been using these tools in our family for like a decade. And I just became an implementer in 2019. So we had already been testing and iterating and tweaking and trying to see what works and doesn’t work for quite a bit of time before implementing.
John Corcoran: 21:30
And were there? Were there books, were there films? Were there resources that helped shape your vision?
Sunny Sheu: 21:39
All books. Well. Learning programs. Leadership programs.
Ann Sheu: 21:43
Well, let me be clear. There was no vision for empowered families when all this started, right? It was just survival for our own family. And so when you talk about like, books or movies, it was like I would watch a rom com and be like, oh my gosh, look at their marriage. And then think about what, what were they doing in that movie too, to help.
And so yeah, a little bit, but it was just consuming so much content and really thinking about what we can try in our family and not being afraid to try. And I’m so lucky that Sonny is willing to try things with me, and we are not afraid to throw it out if it doesn’t work. And if it works, we keep iterating on it and like, okay, well, this question is great. How do we make it better? What would make this question better?
And so we’re both not only avid learners but avid iterators, which is, yeah, kind of exhausting for our team.
Sunny Sheu: 22:33
But yeah, it’s annoying.
Ann Sheu: 22:35
We love iterating. And so we love talking about what worked. What didn’t work. Yeah. And how do we make it better?
John Corcoran: 22:41
You were talking about yourself. Like helping them to figure out what the individual is. You said within an hour we can get to what their passion is. What are the questions that you ask in order to get someone to that point?
Sunny Sheu: 22:57
It’s a secret.
Sunny Sheu: 22:58
Just kidding. Yeah.
John Corcoran: 23:00
There must be some magic to it, because I know a lot of people that struggle with that piece.
Sunny Sheu: 23:05
Well.
Sunny Sheu: 23:06
There’s definitely shortcuts, but we take them through a journey throughout the day. So when I say an hour, that’s an hour in an afternoon. But after doing some self-reflection work in the beginning, I mean, why don’t you.
Ann Sheu: 23:17
Yeah. I mean, it’s an hour on decade dream, but before we have even gotten to decade dream, we have done a deep dive on their values. We are really thinking about their energy and what lights them up and brings them joy. What? What are the things that cause fear, anxiety, stress?
What are the things that are procrastinating on? And then we really evaluate, analyze. How are they thinking about time? How are they talking about time? Are they punting things?
Do you hear them using language like, I’ll do it after my kids start school, I’ll do it after I become empty nesters. I’ll do it after we exit our business. We’ll do it after we go on this amazing couple’s trip after we get this next promotion. Right? Are they punting or are they living life in a blur?
And we’re really evaluating. How are you thinking about time? How do you talk about time? And from there we are able to take them through the decade dream exercise, because they’ve already spent the morning with us really getting clear about who they are, what’s important to them, what lights them up and brings them joy, and then now they’ve got this reality check around how they talk about time and how they think about time. And they’re really willing to be vulnerable in the decade-long dream planning because of all the work that has already been done in the morning.
John Corcoran: 24:38
How, how, if at all, are the kids involved in this process? Do you bring the kids involved in setting a family goal?
Ann Sheu: 24:47
So for our clients with kids that are in their teens or older, they will. We often hear them say that they do their first draft of their family decade dream in the workshop with us, and then they go home and they talk to their older kids about it. For our younger kids. So we have kids that are six, four and one, my six year old.
Sunny Sheu: 25:08
We don’t feed them until they give us their answer.
Ann Sheu: 25:12
Our six year old knows about our decade-long dream, and he knows how many days we’re taking this year, and he knows how many free days we’re taking this year. And Like in August we took a three week RV trip, and so before that trip, I told him, I said, hey, we’re going to take 21 free days, 22 free days together. In August, we’re going to rent an RV and have 21 free days. And so he was under. I don’t know if he fully understands it, but he knows that we’re counting these days and we’re working towards taking 2000 of them.
And he knows that at a certain point we’re going to have to figure out what his school situation is. Am I going to be his teacher if we’re taking this many free days together? And so, you know, we’ve talked about it at a very high level, but he’s on board and he’s excited about it. And the other thing that we hear from our clients is when they align on their family decade dream and they tell their kids about it, their kids are really good about holding them accountable. And so the kids are like, hey, you know, sometimes we have parents that will have a three day goal or a decade dream goal around number of vacations or number of service hours that they want to perform as a family Or.
Living abroad for a year. And so they’ve got older kids that are asking them questions about it and helping hold the parents accountable.
Sunny Sheu: 26:33
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 26:34
I guess that would require some buy in, right? The kids have to be in favor of it. Like, you know, my oldest is in eighth grade. I have a goal of hopefully going abroad before he goes off to college. I could see him being in favor of it now, but a year from now it might be different, right?
He might be like, oh, I don’t want to leave in high school. What are you talking about?
Sunny Sheu: 26:54
Yeah, yeah.
Sunny Sheu: 26:55
So, we’ve also hosted workshops where teenage kids, teenage or older, like college aged kids come in and do it together with their parents, and that’s pretty cool. Like, I mean, I want to do this with my kids when they get older. What’s that?
John Corcoran: 27:10
What was that like, having the teens there? We’re like, oh, mom, dad, what are we doing here? I want to be with my friends. Or are they, like, you know, into it?
Sunny Sheu: 27:19
What’s interesting is that the people we attract are the people who are curious about this stuff and, and want to do better. And that includes the younger generation too. So I don’t know, I just think it’s so special to have someone write all this and have it on paper. And for a parent to be able to see their child’s wiring, how they see themselves and their hopes and their dreams in a clear one pager. I mean, yeah, that’s magical.
That’s like, yeah, that’s like, that’s a gift. And now I know how to support them. Right? And they know what we want and they can support us as well.
Ann Sheu: 28:04
Yeah. So the families that have done the Know Thyself workshop together, we had one family. It was mom, dad, daughter and son, and they ended up sharing all of the work that they did during our workshop with each other over dinner, and the parents just came back to us and just said it was like, what a gift to now really know what our kid’s dream is. And now we can support them in that. And the cool thing about the value work that we do is we are able to show people how their values are directly connected to their triggers.
And so now understanding what their kids values are, there’s always alignment overlap with their parents values, but it’s not always exactly the same. And so understanding what is really important to the child and seeing how those connect the dots back to triggers and the kids and the parents understanding each other’s triggers has been really, really powerful.
Sunny Sheu: 29:04
And just just.
Sunny Sheu: 29:05
To be clear, just to be clear, like we don’t necessarily focus, we generally focus on just a couple. That’s kind of like where we have the most expertise, I’d say, because our kids are so young. But I mean, we’ve definitely had a lot of experience hosting workshops and it’s been powerful.
Sunny Sheu: 29:23
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 29:25
So then maybe this question might be hard to answer if that’s the case. But this actually came up for me yesterday because I was with my EO forum and we were talking coincidentally about ten years in the future and what our lives will be like. And I to be honest, I broke down crying because my oldest is 14 and I envisioned him at 24 and he’s not living with us anymore. And it was really hard to think about that. And I think about that in terms of like the way goals will change, you know.
So talk a little bit about that. You know, how goals change as your kids go into their teenage years and you envision ten years in the future, they’re not going to be living with you anymore.
Ann Sheu: 30:05
Yeah. So the question that I like to ask is, what’s the relationship that you want with your kids, regardless of whether they’re living in your house or not? And that often dictates what that ten year goal is going to be, because we have families, that we have family leaders that will set a goal around. For example, we have one family that has a goal that every year they’re going to do a one week family vacation together and they’ve got teenage kids. So that means that even when their kids are in their mid 20s, they’re coming back for a one week family vacation together.
That sounds really absurd, but because they’ve set this goal now, it is informing how they show up with their kids and how they are handling these trips every summer now so that their kids want to keep coming back for these trips. And so they’re investing in that relationship in a very different way to make sure that those kids are going to want to come back even when they’re in college, even when they’re, you know, working a job, they’re going to take time off and come back for this family trip because it’s like part of their family culture, part of their family tradition.
Sunny Sheu: 31:13
That’s cool.
Sunny Sheu: 31:14
Family compounds and.
Ann Sheu: 31:17
Multigenerational generational living.
Sunny Sheu: 31:19
One thing we should dig into is the power of the decade. Dream. A well written decade dream. Yeah.
Ann Sheu: 31:24
You know, our family’s dream is 2003. By the end of 2029, we will take 2000 free days together as a family. Free days is a concept from a strategic coach. 24 hours of not working. And for us, I mean, it would be really easy for us to take just starting from today and take 2000 free days.
But for us, what this goal means is it implies that our businesses are self-managing, that we’ve got rock star team members leading the businesses. It implies that we’ve got financial freedom. It implies that our marriage is strong enough and healthy enough that we want to spend 2000 free days together. It implies that our relationship with our kids is strong enough that they want to keep hanging out with us and not, you know, that they’re choosing to go and travel with us and spend time with us instead of going to school and hanging out with their friends. And so it implies all of these other things.
But what it has helped us do is a strong decade. Dream serves as an amazing filter because when you know what your goal is, it is so much easier to say no to all of the fringe, all of the things on the edge that you probably would have said yes to, but you didn’t really have a good excuse. Right? And so we have now used our free days goal to say no to things like starting businesses. If the business does not align and we can’t see a path to 2000 free days through that business, we’re not starting that business.
If so, So like for example, we won’t buy a franchise that requires owner operators because that’s not going to get us to our 2000 free days goal, right? I, I won’t say yes to sitting on boards of nonprofits anymore if they’re not aligned with my individual decade dream or our family? Decade dream. I mean, we are just being ruthless about saying no now because we have an incredible guardrail of our 2003 days.
And it’s kind of like, is it helping us get to our 2003 days? If not, we’re going to say no to it.
John Corcoran: 33:27
I don’t think so. Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. I’ll.
Sunny Sheu: 33:30
The last thing I wanted to say is that a good decade’s dream will inform what you do today. Like we’ve we’ve again we went through several iterations and it wasn’t really changing our activity on a day to day basis. And, and so that’s when we realized we needed a stronger goal that like for 2000, like we’re going to have to be very, very proactive. Like we can’t do all of that in one year. We can’t plan it in year nine.
We have to plan it like in year one.
Ann Sheu: 33:57
Yeah. The first iterations of our Family Decade dream were things like a financial goal, a sabbatical goal, and just other goals that we were. It was very easy for us to punt. The work and the lifestyle changed until we actually needed to start working on it. But 2003 days like we are very intentional. Now this year we’re taking 182. Next year we’re taking 200. And for us to get to those goals every single year, we’ve got to plan it out.
We’ve got to be intentional. We have to really think about how we are going to make this work in conjunction with the businesses that we are building in conjunction with our kids’ school? So there’s just a lot of moving parts and pieces, but it’s helping us stay laser focused.
John Corcoran: 34:39
Because when you break it down, you know how many free days you are going to have in this year and the year after that. And so, you know, it makes you have to make some hard choices.
Ann Sheu: 34:49
Yeah, yeah.
John Corcoran: 34:49
I don’t think we talked about what your individual decade dreams were. Can you give us examples from your lives and other clients you’ve worked with.
Ann Sheu: 34:59
So my individual decade dream is to have a million decade dreams defined. So far.
John Corcoran: 35:05
Me, okay.
Ann Sheu: 35:06
That means that we have helped so many people live intentionally to get clear about what their decade dream is. It implies that our business is having a massive impact. It implies that at the core, families and communities are changing because they are there, keeping their eye on the ball right there. They know exactly what it is that they want and they are working towards that. Instead of just living this free flowing life where they’re living life on autopilot or default, they’re being very clear about what it is that they want.
And then the other thing that my decade dream implies for me is that my kids have also defined their decade dream. Right now they’re six and four and one. But when my decade’s dream is due, they’ll be old enough to have thought about what life will look like in ten years. And to teach my kids that type of ten year thinking and have them think that far out, I think is pretty unheard of for kids to be thinking that way. And I, you know, if we’re hitting that million decade dream goal, it would imply for me that at least even my kids have set their decade dreams.
John Corcoran: 36:18
Yeah. And Sunny.
Sunny Sheu: 36:19
Yeah. Mine was around a time freedom goal. Our family. One kind of assumed that in certain regards. So I did one last year.
And then it was very recently. I was like, hey, this is not motivating me differently. So I actually told Anne I was like, I need to rework mine. It’s something around. I’ve always wanted to build a kick ass garage facility.
I’m a car guy, and I think being in the vicinity of cars, but also trying to build simplicity like, I don’t know, it’s a tug, but I want to build some type of car facility that’s like, that could be a museum. Just just a place for enthusiasts to gather. So yeah, that’s kind of my inner workings. I need to make it a little bit more specific. And so I’m working through that right now.
I’m recapping.
John Corcoran: 37:17
Yeah, I have to introduce you to a Silicon Valley member who has a car club in Silicon Valley that I’m sure you’d love that he’s got. That’s his whole facility is like a car, a garage, the dream garage type of thing.
John Corcoran: 37:31
Pretty cool. I have a question. So how do you ensure that your decade dream that as you pursue your decade dream doesn’t come at the expense of other worthy dreams like you could see? You know, a family could make sure that they have no free time so they could pursue a, you know, a 2000 free days type of goal. As a result, they’re working less.
They’re earning less money. They can’t afford their kids health insurance. They can’t afford to put their kids through college. I’m taking it to an extreme. But how do you ensure that you know you don’t like pursuing that at the expense of other worthy goals.
Ann Sheu: 38:10
Yeah, that’s a great question. So all of our work, whether it’s the individual work or the family work, always starts with values. So once the individual and the family can get super clear about their values, the two filters that they are using to make decisions are their values and their decade dream. So we want to make sure that the decisions we’re making are still aligned with our values. And then the other thing is, after they define their decade dream, we have them do a visioning exercise.
What does life look like in ten years right after you finish this decade dream, what does it imply? What else is true other than this one goal? What else has happened in your life because of your progress towards this goal? And then that serves as a filter for them to not just, you know, completely stop working because they are trying to hit this decade dream.
Sunny Sheu: 38:59
And so 2003 days would be homeless.
Ann Sheu: 39:01
Yeah.
John Corcoran: 39:02
So we want to make it exactly.
Ann Sheu: 39:03
It’s taking all of that into consideration. And then the other thing that we have them do is they take their decade dream and we have them work backwards. And so what does life look like in three years? And we do an assessment of different areas of your life. And what does it look like when things are really on track in different areas of your life with regards to your relationship with regards to your financial situation, with regards to your development, your personal development.
Right. And so we’re thinking about all of that in conjunction with your decade dream and the values work.
John Corcoran: 39:43
Yeah, that’s a good way of looking at it. I know that you’ve taken these concepts and you put them into a course that you have, and also you’re putting it into a book that’s going to be coming out. I know we’re a little short on time, but any other concepts or frameworks or exercises that we haven’t talked about here that are in the course and in the book that you want to you want to be sure to mention.
Ann Sheu: 40:07
Oh gosh, there’s so many. But I would just say that the values work is foundational. So if someone’s listening and wants to know where to start, it would definitely be with the values. That’s where I would always recommend people start. And that’s where we start in our workshops with the values, work at the individual level and then do all of the individual work, making sure that you are getting super clear on who you are, what’s important to you.
Because if you don’t start there and you just dive right into the family work, then you’re going to end up bringing a diluted version of yourself to the table. You’re going to end up saying things like, sure, let’s just do it your way. I’m not I’m not really sure. I don’t really know what I want because you haven’t done the Me work. You haven’t done the thinking for yourself.
John Corcoran: 40:54
And one other question is, I think earlier at the beginning of this interview, Sunny, you said about your parents that they didn’t recalibrate, they didn’t re-evaluate. And we talked about your, you know, your individual goals and your decade dream and your family decade dream. How do you know when it’s time to recalibrate? You know, for example, your parents, it’s kind of a family is a kind of a relationship that is disintegrating, disintegrating. But what about if like in your case, you know, like how do you know when you need to reevaluate or change your, your dreams?
Sunny Sheu: 41:31
I think when I’m not feeling challenged, when there’s like a little bit of a lack of fulfillment or a lack of direction, like. When there’s a little bit of wandering that’s unintentional. Like it’s okay to linger if that’s intentional.
John Corcoran: 41:50
As is what happened with you, with your individual goal. You said it wasn’t fulfilling you or wasn’t lighting you up previously.
Sunny Sheu: 41:56
Yeah, I was I. Was trying it on. And that’s another thing. Again, we’re okay with iterating. So we’re going to sit with a goal and see how it impacts us on a day to day basis. And see how we feel about it.
It’s like trying on new clothes, right? Yeah. Like and then and then if we don’t like it, cool, we’ll discard it and let’s go think of something else and kind of yeah. And try again. So that’s kind of our approach.
Yeah I mean because goals are just a mirage, right?
Like once you attain one, like you’re off to the next one and. Right. And we I think it’s too easy to be convinced that it should be something because someone else says it or you see it because of the people you hang out with or whatever. I think the key is to always make sure it’s true to yourself. And if you can do that, then I don’t see how you can lose. Like, yeah.
John Corcoran: 42:48
Yeah, yeah. This has been great, you guys. I love hearing your story and thank you for sharing it. And where can people go to learn more about you and empowered families?
Ann Sheu: 42:56
Yeah. mpoweredfamilies.com and. It’s.
Sunny Sheu: 42:59
Spelled M.
Ann Sheu: 43:00
M p o w.
John Corcoran: 43:01
E at the beginning.
Ann Sheu: 43:02
Or e at the beginning. And we are, we’re working on a book. So look for that in 2025. And our podcast is going to be released in January. So look for that as well.
Sunny Sheu: 43:13
And all of them. Our workshops are in person. Workshops are here in Dallas. But we’re also.
Ann Sheu: 43:19
We have virtual workshops as well. We have virtual Know Thyself workshops, and we have virtual foundational program workshops. So whether you’re an individual and want to do the individual work or whether you’re in a committed relationship and you want to do the work with your partner or your spouse, we’ve got both of those available in a virtual format as well.
John Corcoran: 43:37
That’s great, you guys. Thank you so much.
Ann Sheu: 43:39
Thanks, John. Awesome. Thank you.
Outro: 43:44
Thanks for listening to the Smart Business Revolution Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.