Mitch Axelrod | From Road Warrior to Thriving Stay-at-Home Dad, Profiting from Your IP, How to Become a Rainmaker


Mitch Axelrod wanted to be home with his son but still wanted to remain a traveling speaker. 

So he realigned his goals and changed the industry he was working in.

Mitch Axelrod is a #1 best selling author, speaker, trainer, and mentor. He’s delivered 3500 different seminars, workshops, webinars, teleconferences, and keynotes. Mitch has helped thousands of professionals to generate over $3 billion in revenue. 

In this episode, John Corcoran is joined by Mitch Axelrod to talk about how Mitch went from being a road warrior to a stay-at-home Dad, the advice from a client that changed his life, and why Mitch doesn’t like labels.

In this episode, we also talk about:

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  • How Mitch Manages to be a Stay-At-Home Dad Despite His Busy Life
  • The Accidental Discovery Mitch Had From Recording 3000 Cassettes
  • Listening to His Clients Changed His Life
  • What a “Rainmaker” is, and why Mitch Chose the Topic
  • Why Mitch Doesn’t Like Labels
  • How to Charge What You’re Worth, Even When it is More Than Your Competition
  • We Undervalue Things We are Good at
  • Mitch’s Experience Growing Up and What Made Him Who He is Today
  • Who Mitch Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally. 

If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing. 

A podcast is the highest and best use of your time and will save you time by connecting you to higher caliber people to uplevel your network. 

To learn more, go to Rise25.com or email us at [email protected]. To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

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Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  0:40  

Alright, welcome everybody. My guest on the show is Mitch Axelrod. Mitch is a 40-year entrepreneur. He’s a number one best selling author, speaker, trainer, mentor. He’s delivered, get this 3500 different seminars, workshops, webinars, teleconferences, keynotes. You name it. He’s spoken on all kinds of stages. He’s spoken to companies. All kinds of Fortune 100, fortune 500, IBM at amp t MetLife, Citibank, Pfizer, all kinds of big companies that he has served. And he has actually helped thousands of professionals to generate over 3 billion with a be in revenue, which is absolutely insane. But this is what really is moving to me as a dad myself is if you ask him what his greatest accomplishment is, he says is being a stay at home dad for 10 years. So we’re going to ask them all about that in a moment or two. 

But first, if you’re new to this program, take a moment Think about it. What is the most important thing? What is the most important thing in your career in your business? I’m going to guess it has to do with the relationships or relationships make all the difference. That’s the premise behind this podcast. That’s premise behind my entire career, everything I’ve always done. And so this podcast is about talking to top business leaders, CEOs, founders and experts, ask them to break down not just what they did in their career in their business building it up, but also the relationships that led to all the successes in their career. 

So if you find value in all of that, which I know you will, all we ask is that you subscribe so that you are continually working on building your relationships to grow your business. Also, before you get in this interview, this podcast is brought to you by Rise25 Media, which is our, our company, where our mission is to help b2b businesses to build better relationships. And we do this by helping b2b businesses to get more clients referral partners and strategic partners through them for your podcast and done for your content marketing. I’m totally passionate about this. I think this is one of the best things that you can do. And what we’re doing right now is not just about marketing, it’s about relationship building. And when you do it, right, it’s one of the most powerful things you can do. So if you want to learn more, go to Rise25.com, you can learn all about it there. 

And now I’m going to spend some time building relationships with Mitch, such an interesting guy Mitch, you are the author of the new game of selling and a bunch of other books. And you’re also an expert in rainmaking, which we’ll talk about also ask about as well. But as a father, I have to start where it touches me the most. You found you were on the road 80 to 100 night or different speeches a year. So you’re really on the road a lot. And you separate from your wife and you decide that you’re going to stay home, which just seems impossible because I know a lot of speakers and they feel kind of trapped. So take us through that process and how you manage to get off the road and be a stay at home dad.

Mitch Axelrod  3:30  

That’s a great question. How it started really was when I recognize that my wife and I were going to divorce and I had been living at home and working out of the house since my son was born. So I was sort of already a stay at home dad, right. But now I really had to make the commitment and so my goal was to stay on the road continue to speak continue to train. It was really at the top of my game sharing the platform with very speakers you would know. Dan Kennedy, Brian Tracy Denis waitley. Michael Gerber you name it, getting paid really well doing what I love and do best. But my soul was calling me home. And in between my goal in my soul was my role. And my role was torn. I didn’t know what to do is like it can’t be home and be on the road I can’t be on the road and beyond. And so I said, Well, how do I resolve this? And and it came to me that in order to resolve this, I had to reverse the order of priority of my life. I had to do my soul setting first. And then my rule setting and then my goal setting and I said okay, what is my, my soul was saying, you got to be home. My son was a, I wasn’t gonna miss the next 10 years until he graduated high school. All right, that’s my soul was clear. My role was full time speaker etc. Now it was going to be full time stay at home dad, number one and one day I had to continue to be a business owner. Now I have two households to support not one. Okay. And so then I adjust My goal so what I, what I recognized in the process, which has now become a real central theme of my work, and what I’ve sent shared with 10s of thousands of people, is that when you do your soul setting and role setting first which are actually higher values, and then you do your goal setting. When you get into a place where you have when I quote, dimension tension between soul and goal and your role is confused or your role is not happy with your goal, or you’re selling your soul to get a goal,

John Corcoran  5:31  

whatever the conflict is, Dr. Seuss right now,

Mitch Axelrod  5:34  

yeah, okay. Whatever the conflict is, you can actually resolve it. Because if you if you better align your soul, your role and your goal. So anyway, that’s what I did. I got off the road. And I spent the next 10 years at home working at home, and I had to completely change my business.

John Corcoran  5:55  

Yeah, you were getting paid to speak and train. So what did you shift to?

Mitch Axelrod  5:59  

Well, was fortunate in that

a couple of things I like to call them cosmic convergences because it’s like they’re out of your control but yet they converge at a time, you know, coincidence, but he says there’s no such thing as coincidence coincidences. I say there’s everything is a coincidence. Like everything you think of a co incident. So two things happen. One is teleconferencing got very cheap. Hmm. And so I could replace a lot of the work that I had to do live by teleconference. This is in the late 90s services in 9697.

John Corcoran  6:39  

Okay, midnight,

Mitch Axelrod  6:42  

which very interesting story. Five years before Jay Abraham hired me to train his $15,000 protegees because I did three to our teleconferences with is protegees on a Saturday, two hours back to back to back Take a guess what his 800 number conference line cost was for the day, you wouldn’t believe

John Corcoran  7:06  

how many people were on the line.

Mitch Axelrod  7:08  

hundred people times three groups. Okay.

John Corcoran  7:12  

$10,000 man, and that’s like nothing today,

Mitch Axelrod  7:16  

people don’t have any not have the tools that they have available today that are so taken for granted that when I started 40 years ago, but even 20 years ago, yes, in order to do that, so now he collected $15,000 from 900 protegees. So he could afford to do it right is still viable. Yeah. So my point is that when when I got off the road, I recognize that, okay, I could start doing teleconferences to replace some of okay, but the big chunk of it came from my intellectual property. Okay. And let me sort of riff on that for a bit if I might, yeah, my very first take on the whole information which is now the end. formation game but I’m not in the information game on the in the intellectual property game. Google is in the information game. We’re not in the information game and there’s so much so much bigger game and intellectual property. 1991 I’m doing a seminar for the insurance industry in New York City. I got paid $250 for the chalk because it was an industry conference, right? Huh. There’s 400 people in the room. I put down on a table this big black thing on a Moran’s cassette recorder. Okay, I hit play and record and I forget about it. The seminars over like two and a half hour seminar guy comes running up to me says bench that was the greatest thing I ever heard. I see. Wow, appreciate he says that and the cassette was still in the record. He says I want that.

Unknown Speaker  8:48  

Okay, now tending to sell it or you’re just like, No,

Mitch Axelrod  8:51  

okay. That was the first time I brought a recorder with me. And I said, I’m going to start recording everything. Okay, and I know I’ve got 3000 cassettes. Wow, I recorded over the past four, you know, to obviously we went digital just so. So since digital My point is I asked him a question that I came up with on the moment that has been a transformative question. What do you want to do with it? He said I have 5000 clients. This is clients, I was going to send him a calendar, a paperweight a pen set. He said, If I send them your recording, it’ll be worth some don’t love me, it’ll be so much more valuable than than other stuff which will never look at how much huh? I said. Would you pay me $1 per cassette above hard costs? He said that’s all I say. It’ll probably cost you a buck to produce it each right. two bucks per that’s it. I said yeah, you pay me the five. He says done daily writes on a piece of paper. Okay. I realized in that moment, it went from my mouth to the recorder. And he bought it without without a sales letter without a pitch without anything. And I realized, you know what, I’m in the intellectual property game. That was an information product that was a piece of intellectual property that he deployed as a marketing piece on his behalf. And I would have never thought to deploy it in that way. And all of a sudden, I recognize that my content was marketing currency, long before content became marketing currency in the past five or 10 years. Right. So what I did was because and I started to record everything. I got it. Uh, by the way, just as an aside, I sent a duplicator He says, Mitch, I’m going to put your phone number on on the cassettes, right. It’s a great, I didn’t think of it. Two weeks later, I get a call from an attorney. He says Mitch, I received your cassette and I’m Oh, crap. Okay, what did I do? Right attorney last thing says,

John Corcoran  11:02  

to get a phone call from anyone it says this is an attorney calling,

Mitch Axelrod  11:05  

especially like the major right? unexpectedly.

John Corcoran  11:09  

I’ve got a paternity test in my hand, sir and

Mitch Axelrod  11:12  

right and I’m thinking, Oh, man, okay, where did I go with foul of the law here? He says Mitch, I just listened to your cassette. It was fantastic. I wonder, I have 10,000 clients, business clients. I got this from, you know, guy I do business with? Do you? Would you permit me to give these away to 10,000 my business clients. I got paid to 50 for the talk. I got paid $15,000 with no inventory, no overhead from a stinking cassette. Because I asked them, What do you want to do with it? And I realized at that moment in time that I had intellectual property that was not just user content, but it was marketing content.

John Corcoran  11:49  

Yeah. Well, let me ask you, it’s a new world now. Because we have YouTube. We have iTunes, we have the internet. We have all these different places where there’s so much content out there. It’s Today, is it a different ball game today?

Mitch Axelrod  12:04  

Yes, it is. And in some ways it’s even a better ball game. All right.

And part of that is because intellectual property 10 years ago I did. There was a speakers and authors networking group called saying SMGs Larabee

John Corcoran  12:19  

nice group. Yes.

Mitch Axelrod  12:21  

I did a panel with jack Canfield, Brendon Burchard, Tony Alessandra, and john Kilcullen who is the publisher of the dummies books, His face is on his the dummies face. And I got up there and I was the only one with the flip chart. I could actually send you this video. It’s killer. And I said, here’s my game, sell to sell through and rent your content. Here’s my prediction and my prediction came true. Like it’s almost as if I had vision into the future, but I could see it happening. I said number one content is now currency of the new game of business. That was my first book the new game of business, my first real published book. And I said, not only do you have content and not only is your content user currency, but your content now can be so true. So true and rented. No different than a nest at the time like a Netflix today, but 25 years ago was blockbuster. Right. Now, how did how did all this come to me? Well, when I got off the road, I’m starting to get calls from clients. Hey, Mitch, you know how you doing? We haven’t talked to you senior. I’m off the road. Okay. That’s why you haven’t heard from me. Yeah, guy calls me up. He says Mitch, I’d love to bring you out. We can forge i was i was like at six or $7,000 for the day. 20 something years ago, right? Yeah. Since we can’t afford anymore. I said I’m off the road, you know, so Okay. He says to me, I got a proposal for you. And this is what happens. This is the second time I listened to my client that changed my life. Okay. I can tell you the first time which was profound, he says to me Would you be willing to send me a module of your training, the video, the audio and the workbook, and each month, I’ll train my people on your stuff. He says, I’d like you to be sort of like the blockbuster of business development back then. Right? I said, you want to rent my content, like rented? He said, Yeah, you could say that. I said, I could come and kiss you. Okay, so I said, thousand bucks a month. How’s that? He says, That’s, is that enough for you? Good. That’s kind of relation talk about relationship. Yeah. Are you sure that’s enough for you? I know, you’ve got a client you want, by the way clients. And those are the kinds of clients I had, because my philosophy of businesses highest and best for all. I’m on your team. I’m on your side. My game is to make your elevate your game. That’s what I’m all about. I’ve always been. And so he says to me, is that enough for you? I said, Yeah, that’s enough. You know, I don’t want to push it, he says but I have one more thing. When I used to go out and speak, I would always invite the client to do a customer appreciation hour, hour and a half. charge them 50% more I say bring your clients morning after whenever we’ll do a special will record it and I’ll give you permission to give the recording to your clients. Nobody ever did that. In fact, that went so counter to what every speaker, no speakers would let anybody record them because they wanted to sell them their product, right? I was at lunch. I said, No, I want you to record me. You’re like the Grateful Dead. You had a section for the tapers. Exactly. And I said, you know what you’re going to want the experience. Right? Not not the memory. Right? If you remember memory, yes. Yeah. No, you don’t want you don’t want to off the shelf. You want Mitch live talking to your people without your things. And all of a sudden 30% of the people that I would offer that to Would book me, the I was already there coming out, they would pay me an extra 50% they would invite their customers, we’d record it. And it would be like you are the greatest thing in the world because not only are you training our people, but you’re now enabling us to bring a guy from New York and New Jersey, the expert from Florida come in and train our customers. They went crazy.

John Corcoran  16:21  

But I’m sure also for you it led to more referrals, more business from those there was tremendous.

Mitch Axelrod  16:25  

Where can I Where else could I go get paid to do what I love and have them put 50 or 100 prospects in the room? Yeah, right. Well, of course, that was there anyway. Right. Right. And when I rarely shared this with anybody in the speaking game, because I said, You know what, I could charge five grand just for that one piece of advice. I was so busy Anyway, here’s what happened. He says to me, Mitch, remember when we used to bring our customers in ice he says, Would you allow me to bring my customers in once or twice a month and train on your stuff too? I say yes, another thousand bucks. month. He said don’t do send me the video send me the audio. I want to start right away. I said I could kiss you. Thank you. I got on the phone. I started calling everybody I had done speaking and training for and I said I have a proposition for you. And all I did was reiterate exactly what he proposed to me. Mm hmm. And within 90 days, I had 10,000 a month coming in. Hmm. And within about six months, I had probably 15 depending upon some people fell off something I had like 15 to 20 grand coming in. Just going to the post office sending them video and audio. Ultimately I hired somebody to do that

John Corcoran  17:45  

sending it to them each month

Mitch Axelrod  17:47  

each month with a letter that said you have permission to use this. And I and I really said don’t even bother sending it back. You know I’ve been at blockbuster you have to return the

Unknown Speaker  17:59  

bother God, they just can’t pay me.

Unknown Speaker  18:01  

All right, yeah. All right.

Mitch Axelrod  18:03  

So that passive money, yeah, plus a little bit more active money that I was able to produce mostly teleconferencing, team coaching, team training, and then occasionally, you know, one on one executive coaching, I was able to replace enough of my income to pay for the two households stay at home and spend the next 10 years it’s great, really developing a lot, a lot more of my intellectual properties. That’s great.

John Corcoran  18:29  

And so ultimately, what you’ve just described is functioning today because there are plenty of people that do follow this model, plenty of thought leaders, experts, that sort of thing. You mentioned in there you said this was the second time you listen to your clients and to change your life. The first time was profound. I have to follow up on that.

Mitch Axelrod  18:49  

open loop. Yeah. So here’s what those

Unknown Speaker  18:51  

that loop for me,

Mitch Axelrod  18:52  

okay. The company that I’m with, so I put together three years ago Three years into my be my business right 1988 I met I hooked up with Brian Tracy. Okay. I just lost over a million dollars in a restaurant on the Jersey Shore.

Unknown Speaker  19:13  

A lot of money and then Canadian dollars.

Mitch Axelrod  19:15  

Yeah, it was a half a half a million in cash and a half a million in equity. Hmm. We had a year of medical waste. timing right. My wife was eight months pregnant. I squirreled away five grand from all this hundreds of thousands of dollars we collected I was able to squirrel away five grand. I see an ad for Brian Tracy who I had met the year before at a conference. So I’m speak but all his product said I’m going to do I’m going to work with you one day and he just laughed at me scoffed at me and blew me off, right? Anyway, I see in it and I respond. I say to the guy Listen, here’s the deal. My wife is about to pop. She’s eight months pregnant. I just lost everything I owned in a restaurant. I have $5,000 to my name. It’s 13 thousand dollars to sign up with you. If you’ll take the last $5,000 that I have, I will pay you the balance at $777 per month I pick that number however many months it takes, he says won’t even present it Brian doesn’t financing we can’t go for it. I said you have a fax machine 10 minutes I’m going to send you a fax call me back say yes or no 10 minutes later I fax him get a call back he said that was the single greatest fax I’ve ever read. I and basically I just laid it out I said hey, I’m desperate. I need I need to work I have great connections. I have good experience. I was a financial planner for 10 years. My wife’s about to pop you’re getting the last five grand and I don’t have my mortgage payment for December. Hmm Okay. So if there’s anybody you so here’s the worst that happens don’t send me any inventory. I’ll just give you my five grand like a deposit. If I don’t produce the monthly payments for you after a couple months keep my five grand keep your inventory I lose My five grand. On the other hand, if I make my payments, once I make my payments you give me it give me at least enough inventory so I could show somebody give me one piece, right? And sure enough, that’s what happened. Anyway. Two years later, I put together a program called 21 ways to double your sales because I doubled my sales three years running. I presented it to Brian at the international conference where I was the keynote speaker. That year prior to me actually putting that together and insurance. I put the Table of Contents together and I called up companies I had worked with and I said, I want to do an all day program called 21 ways to double your sales. guy says great will hire $4,000 for the day.

John Corcoran  21:41  

Terrific. I love that you haven’t created the content. You’ve just created the

Mitch Axelrod  21:44  

table of frickin content. Okay, I have made so much money on tables of contents. You have no idea and I’ll say this is the story leading so we do the program prior to the engagement. He says Mitch, can we record this? I was going to ask him but he asked I said yes, but I get the master. No problem. Great. We record it knock it out of the park comes up to me after we says Mitch, that was amazing. We want we have 4000 sales people how much okay? He’s got their cassettes, the Masters in his hand, right? I said, here’s the deal. At the time, Nightingale Conant was selling their six cassette albums for about 39 bucks. Okay, which was eight times cost by the way, you can’t believe that the world today exists, but there was actually a time when Nightingale Conant so there, we didn’t matter how good the program was. It was eight times cost. Okay. I said I’ll make you deal. $10 a person, one condition. you master it, you duplicate it, I get the Masters, you print them up. I just want $40,000 you said done deal. We signed the papers the handshake, okay. 40,000 dollars for the masters. He duplicates them gives me perfect masters and nice six album of four album. He says to me, I got a request. Can we put our company logo on it? I said sure. So I should keep my copyrights. He says, Okay, great. Now why would I do that? When everybody in the business admit you’re crazy. What are you doing? I said, Follow this. He puts the company logo on it. So now they’re proud to put it out there because it’s a company product but it’s my copyrights. Now I have a product that they paid for. That they paid me to produce. If they paid me $40,000 to duplicate they gave me a finished master. Now I took that master. That was the only product ever printed 1000 of I put a space it in the in the industry publication 21 ways to double your sales just launched by mutual of New York. My we sold 1000 of them in like six months at 99 bucks apiece. Plus people were calling me saying would you Come and do seminars on 21 ways to double your sales. Sure, great. A title became intellectual property, table of contents, intellectual property lead to a product lead to a conversion. 30 days later, he calls me and says Mitch, fantastic. But we need one more thing. I was about to say I’m turning that into a book, what a great book 21 ways to double your sales, right? He says we need a workbook. I say great. I’m doing one right now. I said screw the book. I’ll do the workbook. He says how much I said 10 bucks apiece. You print them, you duplicate it. He says, Can we put our cover on it? You can put your cover on. Now what do I do? I take that product with their cover. And now I go out and I sell it everywhere. Not with my cover with their cover their cover much more impressive than my cover. Right? That leads to the next piece of this which was profound. Two years later, they called me and said we need a training program company wide Brian Tracy, Tony Robbins, Stephen Covey, are your competition? Would you like to throw your hat in the ring? I said, Sure, why not? What do I have to say? Here’s what we need. We need to know what you have. I said I don’t have a training program. I said, but I will have one in 21 days. says How you going to do that? I said 21 days, what’s making a point? 21 days later I walked in with what a table of contents

37 modules. I said, here’s the deal. If you film this, record it I will licenses back to you for $250,000 now, they had 4000 sales people. These other guys are going to charge them 250 bucks per person. You’re one that’s a million dollars. years two through five they have 20% turnover. So they’re going to have to buy 100 more every year at two sets another 200,000 $2 million commitment. And they don’t even get to put their name on it. It’s Brian Tracy, Tony Robbins. Stephen Covey. Right? Yeah. I said, if you film it, which is going to cost you 100 grand, you pay me 250,000. I will license it back to you. You have duplication company, you can print cheaper than I can, you can print as many copies for the rest of forever as you want. They said, what’s the catch? Okay? I said two catches. Number one, you’re going to pay me another quarter of a million to go out to your 82 offices and train people on it. Alright, so they know what to do. And number two, in six months after your launch, you’re going to write an endorsement letter to five of your biggest competitors. And you’re going to send out a press release that you just launched this nationwide. He said Is that all? I said? Yeah, because I’ll make enough money on the rest of these guys. And you’re going to put me on the map. We shook hands done the deal. Okay, now I have this killer trick. program this thick literally cassettes on one side but right now I carry this everywhere I go insurance agent guy calls me manager calls me and this is this is profound This is the part I walk in with this book ridiculous right he says met you think I’m going to buy that you’re crazy jersey guy I love dealing with jersey guys because

Unknown Speaker  27:22  

right up front right speak the same language Yeah.

Mitch Axelrod  27:25  

I said what’s about a mere combined it to you know we had it sort of a sort of relationship we knew each other. I said 250 bucks and you get the cassettes right. He says give me the show me the table of contents. I showed the table of contents. He I don’t he picks out five modules. He says I want these five How much? Okay, I’m going to be I’m a jersey guy. I’m a smartass. I said I’m going to come up with a number that’s going to make him buy the 250 for the whole workbook. I sit 500 bucks 100 bucks a month, a module $500 says Great. So when do we start? I said, timeout. What just happened. He said, here’s what happened. I’m going to tell you something that’s going to change your life. He says, You wanted me to have this your way. If you want me to take it your way, I’m not going to buy it because your way they’re going to put it on the shelf. It’s too much, it’s too big, they won’t even open it, I’m not going to buy it. If you give it to me, my way, I will hire you to come in and train one of these modules every month, for five months, and the six month you tie it all together. Now all I need is one sale per guy over that six months of $500 to get my 500 bucks back. Okay? The other way I have zero chance because they won’t open it this way. I got six shots every month. All I need is one and then I’m, I’m you know in profit forever

John Corcoran  28:54  

and that’s the way he wanted his training to be.

Mitch Axelrod  28:57  

And I said thank you bless you. could kiss you and what he just did for me. I became the only Burger King in a world of McDonald’s. Everybody else was giving it to their customers their way you had to take the cassette book, two cassettes, the full thing you had to buy the whole thing I said to him, why don’t you just buy the whole thing for $250 and throw away the other 32 modules? He says, No. He says it’s intimidating. You know, if the first look of it somebody they’ll be overly intimidated. But if you give them one module, eight pages, they can digest that. I said, bless you. So why what happened? I stopped carrying the big workbook. What did I do? I just carried the table of contents. And I sold it by the module. And I said you can have the whole book. Or you can pick whatever number of modules you want at $100 a module and I will tell you, john, I sold thousands of modules. Jules, where I wouldn’t have sold hundreds of workbooks. And what I recognized is, I’m Burger King, I want you to have it your way. And because I see it as intellectual property 37 individual pieces of intellectual property, not one big training program, I now have multiplied my ability to leverage that piece of IP 37 times. Hmm, instead of just selling up against the tide of one big piece of content, which very few people can consume. Right, right. That was huge. And that really, that saved my bacon, because then once I got off the road, I still had these modules, and I could still make deals with people where I could sell individual modules, buckets of modules, bundles of modules. Mm hmm. Right. And then I could do one module a month for three months by teleconference. So I was able to sort of, you know, the timing the convergence of conference, calling The IP and the stigma of people working at home, which when I first started was pretty big, which I never wanted anybody to know I worked at in my house.

John Corcoran  31:12  

Right, right. Yeah, these days is a totally different ballgame. But back then it was there was a stigma to it. Yeah,

Mitch Axelrod  31:17  

I started working from home in 1986. Okay. And the first three or four years while I was doing financial planning, but when I got into corporate training and consulting nada, I once had a situation where my son, like, screamed out in the middle of a call laughed, you know, yes. Corporate guy says, Oh, is that a child in the background? And I said, Yes, it is. He says, What do you take your child? So that’s my son. He’s two years old. I’m sorry. Yeah. He says, Well, do you take your child to work? I said, Actually, no, my child takes me to work. And so I had to tell him, I worked at home and I said, Is that a problem? And he was, you know, very good office. We had our conversation and we made our niceties and we’re back It is hang up. And he says, I just have a question for you. It says, How did you do it? I said, How did I do what? You said, How did you come? How do you work at home? How did you make that? I said, Well, it was more important. It’s important for me to be home and I just chose it. You know, I chose to work home. And I know it’s not conventional, but it works for me. You know, I get to be with my son, and I still get to do the work I need to do. And it was like, at the end of the conversation, he was really curious more about how the heck Could you do something like that? Right. I mean, there’s a lot of things that today are just normal, right? Yeah. And we’re so abnormal, that you know, you just you had to really swim upstream so to speak. So, anyway, that taught me that when your burger king when you’re willing to give something to your clients the way they want it, you expand your possibilities exponentially. And that’s the difference between the IP game and the information product.

John Corcoran  32:55  

Right and I can see why you are so passionate about controlling Your IP, being able to leverage it, use it slice it up. One of the areas of your IP is rainmaking. My background is as a lawyer that term Rainmaker is really big in the legal profession. Everyone wants to be a Rainmaker. Every law firm wants to Rainmaker. Let’s talk a little bit about that. Let’s talk a little bit about that concept. And I know it involves elements of selling. But why did you tackle that particular topic? And you know, what’s fundamental to our understanding? Explain to us how you become a Rainmaker.

Mitch Axelrod  33:37  

Well, here’s what’s interesting. I’m not a big fan of labels. In fact, one of my pet peeves is do your best not to label yourself. Especially when coaching got really big because people were starting to label themselves coaches life coaches and, and my philosophy I’m a simpleton. The first five words in the new game is selling which was a number one bestseller for 100 straight days. Leonardo da Vinci simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. And I have always really strive to make everything as simple as possible so that people can integrate it use it, your the more cumbersome, the more complex it is, the more difficult it is to integrate it, right? And if you can put your ego out of the way and some people try to purposely make things difficult, you know, for their own ego, but for me, it’s like, I wanted as simple as could be, right? So about 15 years ago, I was working, I was doing predominantly selling work and my my, what I was known for was sales process, how to attract qualified convert, keep multiply and reactivate what I call the new game of self. Okay. And an attorney who I was working with says to me, we’re starting a group of attorneys, ironically, right? This is what you really can’t use the word settling. It says because if we if we say we’re going to teach them the new game of selling, he says they’re going to be turned on right they they’re professionals. They’re not says Yeah, why don’t we just call it rain make? Okay? He says, Wow, that’s great like that right? So, um, I created a program. I did like 10 straight months with these attorneys teleconference and I think created a program called rainmakers mastery. Okay, right. And it basically followed the Seven Pillars of rainmaking, right. Then a year later, I recruited 12 people and I said you know what, pay me five grand. But let’s work for a year. And I’ll teach you how to be a Rainmaker for higher. Okay, and so I really sort of expanded the six leverage points of selling became one of the Seven Pillars, but there’s six others that I discovered, were really, really excellent leverageable. And so that’s how I sort of came up with the Seven Pillars of rainmaking mastery. One of which is the six leverage points in your sales process which there’s amazing fertility of opportunity there.

John Corcoran  36:05  

So let’s I want to go through them. We don’t have a lot of time left, but we can try and maybe touch on a couple of them. But also you said Rainmaker for hire. Yeah, yeah. So how does that work? Because I think everyone distracted that idea. Okay. Oh, could I attract someone? Either? Could I be a Rainmaker or could I attract so narrow my business who could just get me leads get me business in the door? That sounds like the, you know, the golden goose, so to speak?

Mitch Axelrod  36:33  

Well, and that’s what it’s so funny. How words why I don’t like labels, you know, because people have a locked box in their head. And the minute you use a label, if that label triggers the lockbox, if it’s open, you have a shot, if it’s already occupied and close the game over before it starts and you don’t know it. Right. So labels are dangerous, unless your brain surgeon Of course, you know, if you’re a lawyer, but even if you’re a lawyer, it’s like what kind of where are you? Right? Yes, yeah. So I was always wanting to say don’t tell people what you are, tell them what you do. So I said, What word Could I use that one word with the right audience would immediately tell them what I do, obviously, right, Nick? Right. So we did this eight session or 10 session thing for the attorneys. I followed it up with a program called rainmakers mastery. And then I created this program, which I still haven’t, I’m resurrecting now called rainmakers for hire. How do you essentially sell yourself as a Rainmaker and then I came up with these Seven Pillars of what I think are the most important elements of foundational rainmaking, all right. And all you need to do is really pick one or two. And if you can leverage one or two of these better than you’re already leveraging them, then there’s you know, potential for multiply multiplicative upside or exponential upside or who knows quantum upside, maybe I don’t know.

So I’ll jump in wherever you think would be appealing.

John Corcoran  38:01  

Yeah. So Well, let’s see. So here’s one that one of the one of the seven different features of the Seven Pillars of rainmaking is the money talk escalating your pricing from time and product value and experience. And that’s one. I know that people who listen to this podcast struggle with how do you charge what you’re worth, and not charge? You know what, you know, even something much higher than what your competitors are charged? Right,

Mitch Axelrod  38:31  

right. Okay. Yeah, I do an entire thing called the money talk. I have an insider trading on the five levels of money of pricing, cost, time, project value, experience, those are the five escalating levels of price, right? If you’re in the service business, you’re probably charging by time, which I don’t buy into the don’t don’t trade time for money. We all trade time for money. The problem is too many people give away too much of their time with the idea that they’re going to get it On the back end. So there’s actually an advantage sometimes to charging for time, because people recognize that there’s no free sessions. You know, there’s no strategies that you’re paying me for my advice and counsel, you know, you’re not paying me for, like, I like to say you’re not paying the doctor. For the 30 seconds it takes him to write the prescription you’re taking, you’re paying him for the 30,000 hours, it took him to know what to write in 30 seconds. Right. Okay. You’re not paying me for the hour or the 60 minutes. You’re paying me from the 60,000 hours that I’ve been a Rainmaker that I can zero in on so if you start to look at how do you price, let’s say you start with time, okay, you said I want to move up from time because I don’t want to get stuck on time. Now you move to project you say well project I can add a little bit more because I’m, I’m maybe outsourcing my time and my costs, and I add a project price like a general contractor. Okay. So if you can, and if you can combine these it’s even better. That’s pretty top tier where most people stop. All right, they figure what’s the project work. But the conversation changes when you have a value conversation. So I love stories because everything I learned, I learned by experience and stories, right? I’m not a theoretician very much. I’m sitting with a corporate executive sales VP. He says Mitch, we called you in because you got referred, we know of you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We have a project, okay, we get to the project, we talk about the project. I’m thinking in my head $25,000, which we all know when we’re talking to somebody, we’re immediately thinking of what we’re going to charge. Okay. So we get to talk about money. All right. And for some stupid reason, I said to him, I’m just curious, john, what have you allocated for this project? And he said, we’ve allocated $100,000. I said, Okay, how much of that and this is against some time. You do things in the moment that you’re not thinking because you’re not pre prepared. And sometimes you need to be open enough to do it in the mindset. How much of that? Would you allocate for me? He said, we’re looking at around 70 grand. Can you do it for that? And I just, I mean, I almost passed out, right? 25 grand, and I’m ready to go. Yeah, this 70 grand, can you do it for that? I said, Yes, I can. I said, in fact, I will make this my primary attention. Because it was like a 60 day project for the next 60 days. Nothing else will get in the way. Now, what did I learn? First of all, I learned that a project could be worth a lot more to the person buying it than the person who’s pricing it and selling it.

John Corcoran  41:52  

often the case, right, because we undervalue the things that we do over and over again and we’re naturally good at right

Mitch Axelrod  41:57  

that’s the other part of it. Yeah. Can’t say how I trained a million people. I asked people do you more often undervalued or overvalued, of underpriced over price? You know your audience? Yeah, yeah. They always get your five or six people are like I always overpriced. God bless you. All right. I want to hang with you. I always felt like I wanted to be at the higher end of the, you know, mid range because I wasn’t quite well. Anyway, the point I learned was stop pricing yourself and quoting, start asking how much is the project worth? Okay. Yeah, well, one other quick story a big 1996 or seven, or five or six right before I got off the road calls me an executive vice president used to be at another company I worked with went to went to AIG calls me and he says Mitch, we got a project for you. Okay. Okay. What do you want me says we have an event in Vegas watch, come out, speak for 45 minutes. I say great. Okay, what do you want me to do? He says, We have 100 million dollar initiative. We want you to pitch it for us. I said Why? He says, Yeah, we asked around the company and said, Who’s the best guy we can hire to pitch for this? Or do it? And everybody said, Yes, I said, but I’m not part of your company. He says, that’s why we want to hire you because we have to convince our 20 regional managers and if it comes from within the company, they’re not going to be we want you to do your thing. And he slips a piece of paper across the table, and he had $20,000.

John Corcoran  43:28  

I said, Jerry to do this one project. I mean,

Mitch Axelrod  43:31  

this one speech, one speech, one talk 45 minutes. I said, Jerry, my fee is seven grand what you know what my fee is, we know we’ve known each other five. He says, I don’t care what your fee is. This is what it’s worth to me. He says, I don’t want you thinking, doing sleeping about anybody else but me for the next 30 days. Right? Is that gonna do it? I said, Yeah, that’s good. We’re gonna fly your first clip. We’re going to give you three days, he says that all I’m going to do is Anyway, here’s my point. Very few of us really know what we’re really worth, until we break through that ceiling and ask people, what’s it worth to you? And then how much would you allocate for me to be able to deliver that for you? And people might actually give you more than you would have asked for. Right? Now, let’s say they offer you less. You say, okay, 20 grand, I gotta get 25 for that project. And now you’ve got, you know, some conversation. Yeah, right. But if you audit so what I tell people is don’t do proposals on people unless people are willing to do it with you. The only way I will do a proposal unless it’s something very unusual, because if you do the proposal with me, then I have a much better chance of having the proposal get accepted. You’re not willing to do the proposal with me, then you’re not telling me that I’m going to be part of your team and you’re going to be part of my team. Now I’m sort of competing. Who am I competing against? Do I even want to throw my hat? Right? Good. So my point is when you break to value, you all of a sudden having a different conversation now what’s experienced price? until maybe 10 years ago, the only thing that was experienced pricing were concerts. Broadway shows where you would pay $500 to go see Bruce Springsteen with a cover price was 100 bucks. Yeah, right. We’ve all paid more for an experience. Yeah. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, all of a sudden, people started charging obscene amounts of money for group coaching. And these excursions, they had no basis in time. It wasn’t a project price, and it wasn’t really value. Because if you ask people like what did you get? Did you get already One return of investment No, did you get ROI to return on investment know, what did you get? Well, I got relationships could be relationships, and I went on the mountains, it’s like wait a minute, you paid $50,000 for that experience with no consideration whatsoever for the value, or what the project cost them would. And all of a sudden, a whole new level of pricing, which has no parameters other than whatever the hell you think it’s worth, and you can command experienced pricing is where people will pay way more for something because they want the experience of it. Or they want the experience of you. And that when I wrote the new game of business I 15 years ago, I said here’s what’s happening. We are now in the experience, economy long before that became popular. I said people are not just buying on price in terms anymore. They’re looking for an experience. They’re looking for transformation, they’re looking for relevance. They’re looking for meaning they’re looking for purpose. Wait a second, I grew up in a world where you got a widget, I got the money, here’s your widget, here’s the MC is pricing terms, right? relationships now, all of a sudden became the most valuable capital. Because if you could keep somebody for five or 10 or 15 years as a customer, that lifetime value really started to pay off exponentially. So the whole idea is, if you can start looking at value pricing and potentially experience or some combination, you just by your pricing, you can set yourself aside provided you can deliver the value and you can deliver the experience deliver the experience. Yeah,

John Corcoran  47:43  

yeah, well, we’re running short on time, Mitch, this is an awesome you know, I want to book in this conversation. We started at the beginning about asking you about your experience, deciding to go off the road, stay home with your son and before he We were talking about you had you were raised by a father, who was a cop, you were raised in Brooklyn, you had seven siblings. And I don’t know how that’s even possible. I have four kids, and it seems crazy. But tell me about that experience with that was like, and also how that made you who you are today?

Mitch Axelrod  48:25  

That’s a great question. I don’t know, I can get asked that question up. First of all, being the youngest, I didn’t talk much until I was like five or six, because I didn’t have any standing there was so loud. You know, I learned to listen. And I think it’s the single most valuable skill I’ve ever developed, that I can really listen, I can listen with my ears, my eyes, my heart, my soul, and I listened in for what’s not being said, because I could see the dynamic of all these people. Plus I could, I was always sort of the peacemaker. You know, so I sort of grew up as a peacemaker. And I thought it was because they were all fighting. It’s just because they’re all loud. But I sort of gravitated toward being a peacemaker, but the thing that really jumped out because I had a lot of time with myself, after they were all married, I was eight years old. I was great at putting puzzles together from when I was three years old. I could put adult puzzles together. And my parents who didn’t have a lot of money, my dad was a cop. They stopped buying me puzzles because they couldn’t afford it. He put a baseball glove in and ball in my hand at three years old, say here, go play baseball. Like we can’t afford these puzzles anymore. But I became a semi pro baseball player and have a tryout with the Cardinals at one time. But those those puzzles, I became like a puzzle master. And it’s one of my great, I guess gifts you could call it where I could see a mosaic of disparate pieces and I could see how those pieces fit together. I could see what the missing pieces are. You know when we do sales process We look at six leverage points how you attract qualified, convert, keep multiply, reactivate, I can like in five or 10 minutes, I can isolate with you, one or more of those where you have what I call push button profits where you could leverage one of those right away. So part of it was listening. No wonder I became a speaker. Part of it was sort of, you know, being a peacemaker and looking at how could I, how could I help keep these people together? And then relationships because I was the youngest. I was close to my siblings, and I was close to my 20 nieces and nephews. Wow. And today, I’ve got 40 great nieces and nephews. And because a few of my siblings have passed, now I’m sort of the connective tissue. So it’s, it’s it’s been quite the ride and and so it taught me a lot about my parents taught me two things that they never said, but they show up. They always showed up and be there. You know, like, whatever you do show up, but don’t just show up. Be there be present, be the first to get there be the last to leave. And so I’ve always sort of practice that and, and it served me well.

John Corcoran  51:09  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Mitch, this has been wonderful. I want to wrap things up. Last question I always ask, let’s pretend we’re at an awards banquet, much like the Oscars or the Emmys and you, Mitch are receiving Award for Lifetime Achievement for everything that you’ve done up until this point. And we all want to know is who do you think who are the siblings? Who are the friends who are the mentors? Who are the relationships that you would acknowledge in your remarks?

Mitch Axelrod  51:36  

Well, first and foremost, my son because he’s taught me more about life than anything. One of my brothers who spent the last 15 years of his life with mouth cancer and lost his tongue, his teeth, his voice box and his nasal cavity and had to talk through a machine and was the single most courageous human being I’ve ever known and ever met. Of course, my dad who I don’t know how we managed to do what he Kids are yours mine, ours and have everybody still love him? Yeah. And there’s a few people in the business world. Certainly Brian Tracy, who was one of my original mentors and got the great good fortune to work with for quite a while Jay Abraham too. And there’s one guy who, who I never met never will he died in 1973. His name was Dr. Robert Hartman. He was nominated for a Nobel Prize because he cracked the code on how we actually can think and make decisions. He created this thing called a value profile. It’s based on a science called axiology, a three dimensional value science. And I got so hooked on this 25 years ago, when I was going through that difficult decision of sole role and goal, which actually those three words come from this sort of my own iteration of this science. And so Dr. Hartman is sort of the mentor I never met, but has guided my life and I’ve immersed myself in his work more deeply than any other single human being. And actually That’s sort of the next iteration of my work around soul roll going also this whole issue of values. So he was sort of the person I never met, but who had the greatest impact on me.

John Corcoran  53:15  

That’s great. Mitch Axelrod. com MIT ch axlrod.com. Where else can people learn more about you with

Mitch Axelrod  53:26  

the new game of selling.com, which is our sales training and our sales program or sales performance program, and then just do a search on me. You could go into my YouTube channel, there’s plenty of good stuff there. And if you search for me, you’ll find me

John Corcoran  53:42  

and you’re doing trainings for companies still.

Mitch Axelrod  53:45  

Yeah, I do rainmaking training, I do sales training, sales management. We also do great assessments on how do you help your people become full potential players in in whatever Role they’re playing. And so we also have an instrument that can measure your soul role and goal frustration and figure out Okay, which one of these stress factors is really holding you back and then how to sort of rearrange those three elements in your life to live a more full life in all three dimensions. So that’s great and you know, the other side by the way, so you out so so you will are allele, Gio al so we’ll go calm.

John Corcoran  54:27  

Excellent. And you have already worked with some amazing companies IBM, at&t, MetLife, Citibank, Pfizer, Prudential dozens more you’ve already, you know, spoken, taught at NYU, USC, Notre Dame and a bunch of other places and Harvard as well. So if you want to learn more about Mitch, go check him out. He’s a great guy. great storyteller Mitch. Thanks so much.

Mitch Axelrod  54:50  

My pleasure, john. Thank you.

David Mathison | How Digital is Disrupting Everything


The Digital Age has brought sweeping change to business over the last couple of decades.

Innovation is how companies can survive and thrive.

David Mathison is Chairman, CEO, and Founder of CDO Club, the world’s foremost company and community of C-suite digital, data, and analytics leaders. David was also the Founder and CEO of the Kinecta Corporation, and was Vice President of Reuters. He is also the author of the successful independent book Be The Media.

In this episode, host John Corcoran is joined by David Mathison to talk about how he got started with CDO Club, the changing digital trends over the last ten years, and whether face-to-face communication is still valuable.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Subscribe on Android | RSS

  • How David Came to Work With Chief Digital Officers
  • Are Companies Becoming More Innovative Today?
  • Using LinkedIn for Recruitment
  • Digital affects all Companies
  • How the Journalism Industry Views Digital Issues
  • Is there Still a Value in Face-To-Face Interaction?
  • Current Trends in Media and Independent Publishers
  • The Music Industry in the Digital Age

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally. 

If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing. 

A podcast is the highest and best use of your time and will save you time by connecting you to higher caliber people to uplevel your network. 

To learn more, go to Rise25.com or email us at [email protected]. To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

Right Click here to download the MP3

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Episode Transcript

John Corcoran 0:40
Alright, welcome everyone. My guest on this show is one of the world’s foremost experts on Chief Digital Officers or Chief Data officers or CTOs as they’re known, which is really irrelevant position today because it’s one of the highest positions at the highest position overseeing digital and data for the world’s companies. And it’s no secret right? that the world has gone digital computer networks, the internet are transforming businesses, changing the way businesses operate. And so he’s really at the forefront of those changes. And he’s even organizing part of his businesses organizing summits around the world where CEOs get together and and talk about best practices. So David’s here to share some of the changes and trends that he’s seeing talk a little bit about his career transformation. And I’ve actually we actually met we were saying before and about 15 years ago, which is amazing. It’s so much time has gone by, but he’s the CEO and the CTO of the CDO summit and CDO club for again for Chief Digital Officers and Chief Data officers. He also has a background he from 99 to 2002, was founder and CEO of the connected Corporation raised over $30 million. It’s now part of Oracle also was a vice president with Reuters and also author of the book be the media, which was a really successful independent book. Then he actually sold over 5000 copies in 11 days via his website, Twitter, and Facebook which is really interesting and has a masters from Columbia. So we’re going to go into all of those things but first before we get into that this podcast is brought to you by rise for divine media which I’ve done for you agency focusing on helping b2b businesses get more clients, referral partners and strategic partners through done for your podcast and done for you content marketing. We have over 20 years experience in this arena and we believe I firmly believe starting a podcast one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally, I absolutely thoroughly enjoy it. And it’s one of those time saving highly, highly time efficient things that you can do if you do it. Right. I get to have great conversations with smart people like I’m about to do with Mr. Matheson here. So if you want to learn more, go to rise 25 dot com. All right, David, you’ve got an interesting background. You got a degrees in business and your business now brings you abroad doing events all around the globe. But tell me how did you get interested in Serving or forming a community that serves Chief Digital Officers. How did that come about?

David Mathison 3:09
Well, thanks, john. It’s great to reconnect. We had some great times in Marin and Marin County. I’m originally from New York, but lived in Marin for about 10 years. And the the answer your question on how I’ve started tracking CEOs, I would include, by the way, we’re sort of title agnostic here. Our base or our community is any C suite leader that’s in charge of one of three things. One would be digital transformation. Two would be data driven culture, that includes analytics, and three would be cyber security. So you know, we’ve hung our hat on the title of CDO for Chief Digital Officer, chief data scientist, chief data officer, but we also cover chief analytics officer see SOS CMOS, Chief Marketing technologist, anyone in charge of those three categories and to answer your question on how I got involved. I had actually joined or I did been invited to join about, you know, 30 years ago, an executive recruitment firm, and they wanted to create an internet practice in like 1995 or something crazy. Right? Right. And you know, I stayed in touch with her. And, as you mentioned, I had published a book called be the media, I independently published it. And as I was promoting it in New York, I was contacted by her again, the head, or the CEO of this recruitment firm. And she once again invited me to start up this practice and I said, Look, you know, if I’m going to start up this, this practice as managing director, I want to make sure that I’m addressing current need. So I’d like to be Managing Director of Digital and data, they didn’t have this practice area. And by the way, neither did any of the big search firms so Egon Zenda, Russell Reynolds, Spencer, Stuart, they kind of bundled digital and data people under you know, the crazy term of media entertainment and technology, which is such a joy to have

John Corcoran 4:56
so many areas, right.

Pages: 1 2

Max Shapiro | Youngest NBA Scout in History, How Tech is Disrupting the Labor Force


Becoming a waterboy for an NBA team would be a great experience for a lot of kids.

For Max Shapiro, it eventually turned into a career as an NBA scout.

Max Shapiro is the Founder of PeopleConnect Staffing, which helps early-stage tech companies to find quality talent. Max is also the founder of Pitch Force, a weekly event in San Francisco and Silicon Valley that gives startup founders and CEOs a platform to network with panels of venture capitalists and angel investors. Max also has the distinction of being the youngest talent scout in the history of the NBA and chief scout for the Phoenix Suns.

In this episode, John Corcoran is joined by Max Shapiro to talk about meeting legendary sports personalities, starting a staffing business during an economic downturn, and the experience of being the youngest scout for the NBA.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Subscribe on Android | RSS

  • How Max Came to Become an NBA Scout
  • The Metrics and Techniques Used to Scout Talent
  • Max’s Experience Running His Youth Sports Camps
  • What it was like for Max to Meet Legendary Sports Personalities
  • Similarities Between Recruiting for Tech Companies and the NBA
  • Working for a Company that Exported Levis Jeans
  • Starting a Staffing Business in the Middle of the Dot Com Crisis
  • Many Companies are Hiring Staff from Outside the US
  • Accounting for Bias in the Hiring Process
  • Will AI disrupt the Market?
  • Who Max Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally. 

If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing. 

A podcast is the highest and best use of your time and will save you time by connecting you to higher caliber people to uplevel your network. 

To learn more, go to Rise25.com or email us at [email protected]. To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution Podcast

Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  0:40  

Alright welcome everyone. My guest on the show is Max Shapiro’s the founder of People Connect staffing, which is a company that he founded in the year 2000. To help early stage tech companies to find talent. They’ve got clients in all kinds of different industries including technology of course biotech, clean tech CBD apps services. So we’re going to talk about that we’re gonna talk about the labor market today is also the founder of pitch force, which is a weekly event in San Francisco and Silicon Valley, which gives startup founders and CEOs a platform to network with panels of VCs and angel investors. And this is really interesting. He was the youngest talent scout in the history of the NBA and chief scout for the Phoenix Suns. So we’re going to talk about the similarities between tech and recruiting for NBA teams and NBA players. But first, if you’re new to this show, take a moment and think about it. You know, when you think about the most important factors in your career, so far, I’m going to guess you really distill it down. It’s really about the relationships and the relationships that make all the difference in all of our careers. And this Pat podcast is about talking to top business leaders, CEOs, founders, experts, and asking them to break down how they built their businesses and really the key relationships with clients, mentors, peers, referral partners, influencers, those things that are the backbone of any business and to share with you how you can do it to how you can develop those relationships and how you can grow your business. So if you find value in all of that, please subscribe so that you get the downloads automatically and you can use these tools to keep growing your business and also before we get to this interview This podcast is brought to you by Rise25 media which is our done for you company focused on helping b2b businesses to get more clients referral partners and strategic partners through done for you podcasts and done few content marketing. We’ve got over 20 years experience in this area. And I was just saying the max beforehand. This is really the this is the perk of my job is that every week I get to talk to smart people like him, and I get to ask them questions that I’m curious about and I just really enjoy doing it. And the podcast really is so many things in one it’s business development, networking, client acquisition, referral, marketing, and more. I encourage I’ve been saying it for the duration of the nine years I’ve been podcasting. Everyone should have one because everyone should benefit from it. And so if you’re interested in learning more, you can go to Rise25.com. Alright. And as I mentioned, my guest is Max Shapiro. Now Max, you were telling me beforehand, you were the youngest talent scout and they hit Through the NBA, and and yet you didn’t have years of experience in the NBA as a player or anything like that you played some college ball. How did you end up becoming a talent scout in the NBA?

Max Shapiro  3:12  

Well, john, when I was 12 years old and about six foot three, and love basketball, an NBA team moved to my hometown of St. Louis, Missouri. from Milwaukee, they were called the Milwaukee hawks, they became the St. Louis hawks, and they actually won the NBA championship in 1957 58. The team subsequently moved on to Atlanta. But when I was 12, they were just they just moved to town and I picked up the phone and asked the coach if I could be the water boy and he said, Come down for an interview and I was the only applicant and I got it and at the end of the interview, he said, Son, you understand you just be working for prestige. Is that okay? And I said, Yes, sir. He said, You know what that word means is No, sir. Get Paid. So, you know, I was not thinking about money and now it was a great job because I was able to it was in junior high school. I was able to ask my friends Hey Steve Hey Joe a bill you want to come help me hand out towels and water for the Hawks or the visiting team like the Celtics or the Knicks or the the Warriors or the pistons.

John Corcoran  4:11  

Wow. And so, it you know, you moved into that into becoming a talent scout, right? You said a friend of yours that had been it was working with the San Diego basketball team at the time.

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Jo Riley | From the FBI, to Celebrity CEO Rise & Fall, and Eliminating Bias in Recruiting


Losing a successful company to a hostile takeover may be discouraging for some.

For this week’s guest, it was motivation.

Jo Riley is an entrepreneur and investor, and Co-Founder and CEO of Censia, which helps organizations and companies to recruit talent more efficiently. She was also the CEO and Co-Founder of 1-Page, a SAAS solution provider which was also in the talent acquisition sector.

In this episode, Jo joins John to talk about her experience working with the FBI, starting Censia, and what it was like going through a hostile takeover of her former company.

In this episode, we also talk about:

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  • Jo’s experience with the FBI
  • Are There Similarities Between Working in War Zones and Sales?
  • Selling Her First Company and Moving to China
  • People are a Company’s Greatest Asset
  • The Best Talent in the World is not Looking for Jobs Because they Already Have Them
  • Why Jo Decided to go Public on the Australian Stock Exchange
  • What Happened with 1-Page
  • Recovering from the Fallout of 1-Page
  • Tough Times do not Mean the End
  • Finding Investors for the Next Chapter
  • The Demonstration that Jo Does to Demonstrate Bias
  • How Jo Came to Work with SAP
  • Who Jo Thanks for Her Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally. 

If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing. 

A podcast is the highest and best use of your time and will save you time by connecting you to higher caliber people to uplevel your network. 

To learn more, go to Rise25.com or email us at [email protected]. To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution Podcast

Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  0:40  

Alright, welcome everybody. My guest on the show is Joe Riley. She’s the CEO and co-founder of Cynthia which is a company that’s on the forefront of disrupting the $500 billion talent acquisition. global market. Cynthia helps organizations and companies to recruit more talented people more efficiently, efficiently. It’s kind of like the Spotify of talent. Intelligence Talent Search, helping companies to discover new talent just like Spotify or Pandora helps us to discover new music. And before that she was the CEO and co founder of one page, which is a SAS solution provider also in the talent acquisition sector. And in 2014, she led one page to a successful IPO. And then onto the I’m gonna get this right hopefully s&p slash ASX 300 by 2016. That’s kinda like the Australian list of the Top 300 fast growing companies but before that, get this she started her career in an international training unit for the FBI. I know we’re gonna find out how that connects to entrepreneurship, and had a full scholarship for crew at the University of Virginia, studied foreign affairs been featured in fortune Fast Company, Forbes, you name it Inc, all these different places. But in this episode, we’re going to talk also, frankly, about the entrepreneurial roller coaster, including the ups and downs, including being forced out of the company she founded and what it’s like to pick yourself back up again and start over. Again, which I don’t know anyone who can’t relate to having to do that, at some point, if you haven’t yet, you might at some point in the future. So listen to this episode. And if you are new to this show, Take a moment, think about what are the most important factors in career so far, I’m going to guess, if you really just fell down your career. It’s about relationships. And that’s what this is about talking to top business leaders, CEOs, founders and experts and asking them to break down how they built their businesses and the key relationships that actually lead to the backbone of any business help them to grow their business. And so if you find value in this podcast, which I know you will all we ask that you subscribe so you can receive the information and the downloads automatically. And also, before we get into this interview, this podcast is brought to you by rise 25 media which is done for you agency focusing on helping b2b businesses, to get more clients referrals and strategic partnerships are done for you podcast, and done for you content, marketing, and if you do it right, a podcast is so many things in one, it’s business development, networking, client acquisition, referral, marketing and more. And it even allows you to have a conversation With interesting people who may be worked for the FBI and and then has all kinds of experiences and entrepreneurship just like I’m about to do here today. So it’s one of the most enjoyable things that I do. So learn more, you can go to rise 25 calm. So as I mentioned, my guest is Joe Riley and let’s start with the FBI, shall we? I mean, that’s, that’s got to be one of the most interesting things I’ve seen. You said you always wanted to be in the FBI, you were recruited and you joined the international Training Unit. But then once you got there, you found out it wasn’t exactly what you thought it would be. And it kind of wasn’t exactly what you wanted to do, which led you down a journey which led you to other other occupations, but explain to me how you ended up with the FBI.

Jo Riley  3:43  

Yeah, um, so I, as you mentioned earlier, I was an athlete in college and so, first and foremost, I was always going to be a professional rower, which for all those that no growing they will be laughing right now. For nobody pays us the stadiums to play our sport. But I definitely wanted to be in team, national team started training the national team and had a really terrible injury. And as I after my fifth surgery in that injury, I was told by the head of the VA medical that I could never grow again, they couldn’t fix my injury. And so while the NCAA kept my scholarship, I I’m forbidden from rowing in the United States. And mostly that’s because I have a terminal or I have a an injury that that makes me not able to play a sport at all. And so while I was sitting there, my life over a funny part of me that didn’t really come up too much as i guess i started or as I looked at college, was that when I was a young kid, I I really wanted to be I always said I wanted to be an assassin. But don’t tell anybody that God forbid I would ever be on some like wanting to be an assassin as a young kid and I really wanted to protect the people I cared about the most. I wanted to Our country and at UVA, you’re surrounded by intelligence. You’re surrounded by a CIA. You’re surrounded by the FBI, NSA. We’re all right there, especially with Washington, DC, Washington DC being right or close to gay. And so unbeknownst to me at the time that I no longer could grow. I was approached by the CIA and FBI to join

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David Meerman Scott | Turning Fans into Customers, John Mayer, and Lessons from the Grateful Dead


The Grateful Dead are an American staple of the music industry.

But what can we learn from them about marketing?

David Meerman Scott is an internationally acclaimed business strategist, entrepreneur, advisor to emerging companies and public speaker. David is also the Wall Street Journal best-selling author of 10 previous books, including The New Rules of Marketing and PR, Marketing Lessons from the Grateful Dead, and more. 

In this episode, we talk about David’s books, the interesting marketing strategy of the Grateful Dead, and how John Mayer came to play with that iconic band.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Subscribe on Android | RSS

  • Why David Decided to Write a Book About Fandom
  • The Grateful Dead Have Been a Big Influence on David
  • The Unique Marketing Style that the Grateful Dead Used
  • Some Companies Embrace 3rd-Party Adoption of Their Products…Some Don’t
  • How David Met the Founder of HubSpot
  • Why Tulsi Gabbard Said the Question David Asked Her was Her Favorite of All Time
  • Writing Books about Digital Marketing
  • John Mayer Teaming up With The Grateful Dead
  • How David Became the Manager of Jerry Garcia’s Favorite Guitar
  • Who David Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, where our mission is to connect you with your best referral partners, clients, and strategic partners. We do this through our done for you podcast solution and content marketing. 

Along with my business partner Dr. Jeremy Weisz, we have over 18 years of experience with B2B podcasting, which is one of the best things you can do for your business and you personally. 

If you do it right, a podcast is like a “Swiss Army Knife” – it is a tool that accomplishes many things at once. It can and will lead to great clients, referrals, strategic partnerships and more. It is networking and business development; and it is personal and professional development which doubles as content marketing. 

A podcast is the highest and best use of your time and will save you time by connecting you to higher caliber people to uplevel your network. 

To learn more, go to Rise25.com or email us at [email protected]. To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution Podcast

Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  0:40  

Alright, welcome everyone. My guest on the show is David Meerman Scott. He’s an internationally acclaimed business strategist, entrepreneur, advisor to emerging companies and a public speaker is also the Wall Street Journal, best selling author of 10 previous books, including the new rules of marketing and PR marketing lessons from the Grateful Dead which will be talking about the Grateful Dead and New Rules of sales and service and his new book with co author and daughter, Rico, Scott is Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans. So we’re going to talking all about that. 

But first, if you’re new to this show, take a moment and think about what have been the most important factors in career so far, I’m going to guess if you really distill it down, there are critical relationships have made all the difference. And this podcast is about talking to top business leaders, CEOs, founders and experts to ask them a breakdown how they built their businesses and the key relationships with clients, mentors, peers, referral partners and influencers, the backbone of any business and to share how you can do it too. So if you find value in this podcast, make sure you go and subscribe and also before we get to this interview, this podcast is brought to you by Rise25 Media, it’s our done for you agency focusing on helping b2b businesses to get more clients, referral partners, strategic partnerships, and build a great relationship so done for you podcasting and done for you content marketing. We have over 20 years experience in this space. And I have to say it’s one of the best things that you can do start a podcast is get to talk to amazing people like David meerman, smart, smart meerman. Scott, excuse me, like I’m about to hear. And even if you butchered their name from time to time, forgive you. So if you want to learn more, go to Rise25.com

As I mentioned, David Meerman Scott is my author, you are the author with Rico Scott of the nubuck fan autocracy. And now, you know, David, we’ve never met before, I’m sure we know a lot of people in common we’ve we’ve kind of crossed paths in a sense, you’re, you’re one of the lead, you’ve spoken on so many different stages. One of the lead speakers at the Tony Robbins business mastery speed seminars, I’ve actually done webinars for the same community, but we’ve never cross paths that way. But why? You know, you’ve got this really interesting, varied background, you lived in Asia for 10 years. Why write a book about fandom? What what inspired that at this point in your career?

David Meerman Scott  2:49  

Um, john, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. So I was thinking a lot recently. Well recently, going back five years about how on one hand I’ve been talking a lot in my career about online marketing and feeling like we’ve kind of the pendulum has kind of swung too far in the direction of superficial online communications but at the same time, how important my own personal fandoms are. I am such a live music geek. It’s ridiculous I’ve been I actually keep a spreadsheet starting from when I when I was 15 years old back in the 1970s going leading up until I will add a new entry tonight because I’m going to a David Byrne concert tonight. I have been to 786 live shows as of this moment, and it’ll be 787 in a couple of hours. I’m such a live music fan. I’m a fan of surfing I’m a fan of the Apollo lunar program actually wrote a book called marketing the moon that was turned into a PBS American x experienced mini series. And so I really think that This idea of fandom is something that people are passionate about. But also it’s something that companies can tap. And so I just got fascinated by the concept of how and why a company can attract fans and dug into what that prescription might be for any company that wanted to do so.

John Corcoran  4:25  

And amazing how you, you took your background, your experience, your, your enthusiasm for the Grateful Dead and other things that you are enthusiastic about and wove that into the lessons of this book as along with profiling a lot of other books, a lot of a lot of other businesses as well. They do an amazing job of not treating their customers like customers, but treating them like their fans and treating them really amazingly well.

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Jeff Dudan | How to Turn a Hurricane into an Opportunity and Scaling Up to 200 Franchisees


When a devastating hurricane strikes, many people want to head to safety and security.

This week’s guest did the opposite.

Jeff Dudan is the Franchise Executive for Dudan Partners, and the Founder and former CEO of AdvantaClean. Originally started as a painting business, AdvantaClean became a cleanup company in the wake of a devastating hurricane in South Florida. Jeff is also an author and member of YPO.

In this episode, host John Corcoran welcomes Jeff Dudan to talk about starting AdvantaClean and growing it to over 200 franchises, why he decided to sell the company, and some of the other projects that Jeff is working on.

In this episode, we also talk about:

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Subscribe on Android | RSS

  • Jeff’s Story of Growing Up
  • How Jeff’s Painting Business Turned into a Cleanup Business
  • Staying After a Hurricane Instead of Running Away
  • Scaling Up into the Franchise Model
  • The Challenges of Having Franchises
  • Jeff’s Experience in YPO
  • Why Jeff Decided to Sell the Business
  • The Autonomous Lawn Mower Technology that Jeff is Involved In
  • Other Projects Jeff is Leading
  • Jeff’s Book Hey, Coach
  • The Experience of Being on the Undercover Boss TV Show
  • Who Jeff Thanks for His Success

Resources Mentioned:

Sponsor: Rise25

Today’s episode is sponsored by Rise25 Media, the done-for-you lead generation service to get you a steady flow of new leads, prospects, referral partners and strategic partners coming in the door every month, month after month.

Rise25 Media was created by myself and my business partner, Dr. Jeremy Weisz, and is part of our mission to help connect more entrepreneurs with their ideal prospects and referral partners.

We do this through lead generation and proactive outreach, and we do this through our done for you podcast service, which is the #1 thing I’ve done in my business and life.

To learn more, book a call with us here.

Check out Rise25 to learn more about our done-for-you lead generation and podcast services.

Right Click here to download the MP3

Advertise on the Smart Business Revolution Podcast

Episode Transcript

John Corcoran  0:40  

Alright welcome everybody. My guest on the show is Jeff duden. And you know, back in 1994, shortly after graduating from college with a degree in marketing, Jeff founded a small business painting student housing and not too long after he was in South Florida and hurricane Florida just clobbered. South Florida and the company turned to helping with the claim. And over the next 20 years or so the company became advanta clean grew to over 200 franchise franchises. hundreds of employees 10s of thousands of clients and he even grew as he was growing up. The company eventually became an Undercover Boss on the TV show Undercover Boss an episode of that if you’ve seen that show before. And now most recently, he sold the business recently and today advises other companies in the franchise industry and growth strategy. So in this episode, we’re going to talk about Jeff’s journey of scaling up advantage clean, but we’ll also talk about some of the advantages from a business owners perspective of pursuing a franchise model because I know that’s something that people are are interested in curious about. there’s pros and cons. So we’re going to talk about that. But first, if you’re new this show, take a moment think about what are some of the most important factors in your career so far? I’m going to guess that when you really just don’t distill down your career, one of the most important things is relationships, relationships really make all the difference and this podcast is about talking to top leaders, CEOs, founders and experts, and asking them to break down their business and the key relationships with clients, mentors, peers, referral partners and influencers that are the backbone of any business and to share how you can do it too. And so that’s what we do in this podcast. And if you enjoy this, which I know you will, all we ask is that you subscribe so you receive those downloads automatically and you keep focusing on this critical piece in anyone’s career in anyone’s business. And before we get to this interview This podcast is brought to you by rise 25 Media it’s our done for you agency focusing on helping b2b businesses to get more clients referral partners and strategic partners through done for you podcasts and done for you content marketing, and our company has over 20 years of experience with podcasting what I’m doing right here today, we believe that starting a podcast is one of the best things you can do for your business. And you personally, if you do it, right, it’s so many things in one, its business development, networking, client acquisition, referral, marketing, and more. It even allows you to have a conversation with people whose work you admire and to learn from them like I’m up I’m about to do with my buddy Jeff here. So if that is of interest, you go Ride 25 dot com you can learn more about it. So as I mentioned, my guest is Jeff student and Jeff know you got your start after college, you started this painting business, and then bam, Hurricane Florida hits and talk about turning lemons and lemonade. You pivot the business but I’m curious to know, what was that process like, you know, at what point did you say okay, we’re no longer a painting company. Now we’re going to be a cleanup company What did it happen right away where they’re like no opportunities painting at that point. So you had to pivot come pump company, take us through that process.

Jeff Dudan  3:35  

Be happy to and want to thank you for the opportunity of being here today and thinking about your opening comments. One of my mentors, Dave, zero, false, always shared with me that our lives are going to be impacted by the books that we read, the people that we meet and the conversations that we have, and the relationship equity that we build along the way. So relationships matter and, and I appreciate your opening comments on that. So Really quickly in the story but so I grew up in Chicago as a as a mediocre student basketball player got exposed to football late as a junior in high school and I decided it was something that I wanted to pursue so had a couple of false starts in college but I ended up as a junior college transfer getting a football scholarship out to Appalachian State University in Boone North Carolina in 1989. And when I got there it was I drove my my mom had given me her car to get there and it was a one way trip it died up in student housing on the hill behind the university and I think it’s probably still there because I never did go back to get it

John Corcoran  4:42  

sounds like the cars I drove in college.

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